Crash at Pearson

Dks01 · 2025-02-17T20:27:42+00:00

From CBC Toronto's Pearson airport is responding to an emergency involving a plane arriving from Minneapolis Monday afternoon, the airport said in a post to X just before 3 p.m. Emergency teams are responding to the incident involving a Delta Airlines plane, the airport said. All passengers and crew are accounted for, the post said. Peel Region paramedics say they are on the scene. They say they are dealing with eight patients involved in the emergency, but don't yet know the extent of their injuries. More to come... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-overturned-airplane-1.7461227

ElQuintron

Donoreo I can lock threads, or delete posts, or delete threads. But that's how it works, we may be able to extend it beyond this eventually.

Donoreo

ElQuintron Can you edit posts? Seriously, why TF was this software chosen?!?!?

Somewhat-Reticent

ElQuintron > Indeed.

Dks01 urbanriot … Their gender is totally, completely and utterly irrelevant. Unless ignorant shit is being deliberately and consciously stirred up.

"The requested resource was not found." Original Comment deleted; context fail?

px_eliezer_ It is the men who won't ask directions.

In the past, due to cultural division of labor skillset differences - not inherently gender.
Truck drivers often contacted dispatch for directions or re-routing before GPS & Waze.

Splitpair

Somewhat-Reticent Truck drivers often contacted dispatch for directions or re-routing before GPS & Waze.

I have found using a GPS can sometimes provide guidance that is incorrect, they are only as good as the mapping that is built into them, for that reason I use a GPS receiver puck connected to the laptop docked in my truck which indicates my location on a map allowing me to determine the best route to where I want to end up.

ElQuintron

Donoreo The point of locking an individual post is so people can't reply to it anymore. We can edit posts, but then they're still open. Anywho, that's enough about how the sausage is made. I will open up a private discussion with you, and you can feel free to ask my any kind of mod questions you need and I will do my best to answer.

Rook

Dks01 From your link:

"The approach looks relatively normal," he said during an interview on CBC Radio's Metro Morning. "But as it approaches, it never breaks its descent, it never flares out to touch the runway gently." The landing flare is a technique used by pilots that involves slightly lifting the plane's nose to slow the speed to ensure a softer touchdown.

It's still early in the investigation, but this seems like a plausible explanation.

Dks01

Splitpair GPS devices are well known here for failing. There is one main highway north from Toronto. Any parallel roads are largely gravel or dirt, and not continuous. It is well known that a heavy truck that has ditched is often a driver following their GPS and not realizing where they are, resulting in an expensive heavy tow.

Splitpair

Dks01 GPS devices are well known here for failing.

I had one a so called quality Garmin that guided me to a road out in Lehigh Acres, a few miles down the road I cane across a canal however the address I wanted to be at was on the other side of the canal, so 9 miles later was finally able to get to the address.

I sold the Garmin on e-bay and bought the puck which combined with my laptop has never led me astray even out here in nowhere.

Out here we have many miles long dirt access roads that are named by the owner, yet they show up on my map, which is real handy

Dks01

Bink63 Edited, but it makes makes inappropriate speculation, even about experience. None of which we know at this point. My only comment is that no one gets to be a Pilot in Command without experience and training.

Bink63

Dks01 Bink63 Edited, but it makes makes inappropriate speculation, even about experience. None of which we know at this point. My only comment is that no one gets to be a Pilot in Command without experience and training.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23855069/

Speculation?

"Methods: : Studied were 41 pilots (20 men and 21 women) and 38 nonpilots (20 men and 18 women) matched for age and education. Pilots were stratified for flying hours. Participants performed a mental rotation task (MRT) in which accuracy and response time were recorded, and also completed sense-of-direction (SOD) and spatial cognitive styles self-evaluation scales.

Results: Men had significantly smaller response time in the MRT (men 279.6 +/- 147.0 s, women 401.6 +/- 361.3) and greater SOD (men's score 49.1 +/- 8.6, women's score 46.6 +/- 7.8), but these differences were absent among pilots. A positive relationship was also identified between pilots' response times and their flight hours."

A few things...

"The National Institutes of Health (NIH), a part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, is the nation’s medical research agency"

Do you think they publish Medical Research based on "inappropriate speculation"?

Then there's the matter that you seem to think you have more knowledge and PIC flight experience (AND attribute things I never stated, to me), than I do, without stating your personal qualifications, in the field.

Now, I'm not an ATP, but I have 2 close relatives that are (one of whom used to take me to "fly" various Full-Motion Flight Simulators at United Airlines Flight Training Center in Denver). I also have nearly 200 Hours as a Pilot in Command, both Solo and under Dual Flight Instruction by Certified Flight Instructors, whose "Day Jobs" happened to be piloting United States Air Force "heavy" jets, like the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy, C-141 Starlifter, Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker and a little Peacemaker called the B-52 Stratofortress.

2 of them (CFIIs) were also ATPs for United Airlines and American Eagle and kept up their USAF Flight Currency Standards requirement by continuing their USAF flying in the USAF Reserves.

[TLDR] I'm well aware (unlike non-pilots) of what pilots have to do to attain and maintain their Flight Certificates and Ratings.

I've lost count of how many planes I've washed to pay for more flight time...

styvas

Splitpair To make the off topic on topic, this side discussion is reminding me of a time my GPS tried to take me out on the tarmac at Pearson (or at least into a restricted area that would have required tarmac use to get to my destination). lol

GreenEnvy22

The US has very unusual rules about minimum flight hours before you can become a airline transport pilot (ATP license).
Most of the world you only need a couple hundred hours of flight time. Airlines take new pilots fresh out of flight school and train them for whatever aircraft they use.
In the US, this was raised to 1500 hours a decade or two ago, in reaction to a crash (which had nothing to do with the pilots # of hours). There is a lot of debate about whether this makes for safer pilots or not. Some feel that of course more hours is better, but others feel it gives these pilots way too many hours picking up habits on smaller aircraft that don't apply to larger ones, which can cause issues as people revert to what they knew first in high stress emergencies. It's also led to a pilot shortage in the US.
Stats wise, there hasn't been any proof that the higher # of hours required has made anything safer in the US.

I follow this stuff as I am a big airplane (and space) nerd. If I hadn't gone into IT, I likely would have gone to flight school. I almost started flight school in my late 30's (just to be a private pilot) but unexpected kid #3 delayed that and I've not done it since either. One of my buddies is an aerospace engineer and got his PPL a few years ago. He's going to take me up in his plane sometime soon and let me do some flying.

Dks01

Bink63 You don't need to give a wall of text to support your personal opinion. Just stop speculating on the cause of a aircraft crash that occurred in Canada.

Somewhat-Reticent

Bink63 Speculation?

"Methods: : Studied were 41 pilots (20 men and 21 women) and 38 nonpilots (20 men and 18 women)…
… these differences were absent among pilots.

Sample too small for extrapolation beyond sample; absence of differences among pilots notable.

ZZZZZZZ

Delta has offered each passenger $30,000 us pretty good deal actually.
Unless you're injured.

ElQuintron

ZZZZZZZ I haven't looked into this too much (despite it happening close to me) but I don't think there were any serious injuries.

GrumpyCanadian

ZZZZZZZ It may initially sound like a pretty good deal, but if you are an out-of-province resident who ended up in hospital, your bill could easily eat most of that, especially if you were air-lifted and ended up in ICU. You wouldn't have much of anything left if you didn't have travel insurance.

Heat84

ZZZZZZZ Delta has offered each passenger $30,000 us pretty good deal actually.
Unless you're injured.

I need to figure out which plane is most likely to crash next so I can be on it and (hopefully) collect my settlement money later.😛

What about the incident in D.C.? I gues the families of the victims are the ones getting the settlement money? Or did the airline luck out because all the passengers died?

Speaking of the next incident: https://apnews.com/article/arizona-small-plane-collision-763524e34ee9f1b9315b30121f3ec584

mrweather

ElQuintron I haven't looked into this too much (despite it happening close to me) but I don't think there were any serious injuries.

There were a few considered "critical" including a youth who was transported to Sick Kids. Last I heard all but one had been released from hospital.

Rook

I was thinking the same thing.
I'm assuming that the $30,000 "no strings attached" deal means that they can take legal action against the airline at a later date and still keep the $30,000. Not bad.

Dks01

Rook

Rook I'm assuming that the $30,000 "no strings attached" deal means that they can take legal action against the airline at a later date and still keep the $30,000. Not bad.

It's $30,000 USD or about $46,000 CAD. But many are suggesting it's not enough.

Some of the survivors of the crash are considering legal action.

Two have now hired a Toronto-based law firm that specializes in aviation cases, according to the firm.

In a news release Wednesday, law firm Rochon Genova wrote that its clients were hurt in the crash and were instrumental in opening an emergency exit door to help others escape.

"With our involvement, we expect to reach a timely and fair resolution for these clients and others who reach out to us," lawyer Vincent Genova said in the release.

In an interview with The Canadian Press, Genova said that both of his clients were injured in the crash, including one who returned to the hospital Wednesday to follow up about a possible head injury.

Delta Air Lines says it is offering $30,000 to the passengers of Flight 4819 that crashed at Toronto’s Pearson International Airport, as crews begin clearing the wreckage of the plane from the site.

Genova also said he was working with an American law firm who had been retained by U.S. clients.

"We're probably going to start our own investigation to determine if there are any other parties that should be involved in potential litigation moving forward," he said in the same interview.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/wednesday-delays-pearson-crash-1.7462665

Dks01

mrweather One of the up sides was that ORNGE helicopters were readily available as were ORNGE land ambulances. Other ambulances were used, but the helicopters could take the most injured to the trauma centres and to Sick Kids.

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