The general EV Discussion Thread

Hydraglass

Hey all - I think I was probably one of the most prolific posters in the old EV thread - not sure if/when AR might find his way back over to us all here, as he owned the original thread, but I'm more than happy to fire up a new thread here for general discussion.
As a good way to kick it off I thought I'd give an update for myself - I've now had my PHEV for 3 years as of the end of this month (Volvo XC 60 Recharge) - I have put on it a total of 124,000km in the past 3 years, including 2 road trips to Florida, 2 road trips to PEI, several trips around various parts of Ontario, many dozens of trips to our family cottage up in Bancroft, and my daily commute. I have averaged (I keep a spreadsheet for my own curiosity) fuel usage of 6.2L/100km and out of every 1000km I drive, roughly 150km are EV mode. (That would make my "not EV mode, just mild hybrid mode" fuel usage about 7.3L/100 - still relatively impressive for a mid size SUV.)
The rated fuel economy for the non-hybrid version of the XC60 is 8.5L/100. That would mean I've saved about 2.3L/100km - so a total of 2,852L so far - at an average of $1.50/L is $4300. The purchase price premium for PHEV over the non PHEV was $4000 - so I'm already ahead.
I've had the vehicle in for one under-warranty repair - the water pump (which is electric) had an electrical short in the motor which prevented the vehicle from operating (on start up it would report "cooling electrical system fault - shutting vehicle down to prevent overheating") - I used the "on call" button in the car, a tow truck came and got the car, took it to the dealer, the dealer brought a loaner car to my house for the 4 days it was in the shop, and I went back and picked it up the following week at no cost to me. That was at around 95,000km. I have an extended warranty to 200,000km.

Am I still considering a pure EV for my next vehicle - yes - when - probably 2027 when my car is around 5 years old. What am I in the market for? Will have to see what the market brings, it's a fast moving industry - currently the Polestar 3, the Chevy Blazer EV, Mustang Mach E, and the Mercedes EQE are at the top of my list - but also curious about the new Silverado EV, the Rivian R1T, and a few others.

AppleGuy

Hydraglass

My 2022 Kia Niro PHEV. I have 52,200 km on it.

I have reset the milage consumption once, the first oil change/tire change (April 2023). So for the last 47,000 km, roughy, I have averaged 2.1l/100km. I usually don't travel more than 100 (Kitchener to Toronto/MIssissauga/Niagara/Hamilton/London/Queensville). Most time I am in EV mode, though in the winter the engine runs to heat the cab.

No warranty repairs yet.

I have a 10 year 200,000 full warranty, so I will have this car for 10 years unless it gets totaled in an accident.

I will likely not go for anything other than a PHEV next time round.

bbbc

I will only buy rigs that feature Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. Chevy can eff themselves for ditching these platforms to chase greedy subscriptions.

The other important EV aspect for myself is access to Tesla's Superchargers, which General Motors just got access to. Having reliable charging for out of town trips in my Bolt is a godsend.

I would love an affordable PHEV compact pickup. I'm not holding my breath since Ford said in 2023 that there isn't a need. Toyota just puts out big jacked up trucks anymore. 😔

digitalfutur

HEVs and PHEVs are the OG right now from a cost-benefit perspective. EVs unfortunately are not.

With the tax credits gone, there is a big price difference between ICE and EVs...$10K minimum MSRP before the additional sales tax and financing costs, and the one-time cost of a Level 2 charger This means the break-even is 6 years or more at 20K kms a year, because the higher up-front costs are not recouped by lower maintenance and fuel costs before then. So for the average purchaser who doesn't drive more than commuting and some personal kms, finances some or most of the cost, and who doesn't live in a multiplex, EVs are simply still too expensive..at least $150 more per month lease or finance.

EVs do have their uses, high-km drivers, rideshare, delivery, but they'll stay a niche market until up-front costs come down.

taraf

digitalfutur HEVs and PHEVs are the OG right now from a cost-benefit perspective. EVs unfortunately are not.

Have to disagree with you that BEVs are not. As long as you're able to charge at home and aren't traveling to places where there's no charging infra (check recent series of videos on TruckedUp EVs channel on youtube - he did the whole country in an F150L), they pay for themselves pretty quickly. Remember you're not buying gas or paying for oil changes, and with regen braking the frequency you have to get the brakes done is significantly less. I'm loving my PHEV - we're averaging 2-3 weeks on a tank of gas (45L) in the winter and closer to 2-3 months in the summer, not counting long distance road trips.

I decided about 6 months after we bought our current car that it was going to be the last ICE I buy

bbbc

If I was wanting to go electric today without a federal rebate, I would get a 2017 Chevrolet Volt with ACC / adaptive cruise control and slap an openpilot by comma.ai in it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/volt/comments/utiv6t/if_you_have_a_volt_with_acc_consider_getting_open/

digitalfutur

taraf I ran the numbers in the old forum on an Chevy Equinox LT ICE and BEV comparably equipped. The BEV was over $10K more up front before taxes and financing costs and those 2 costs are higher still due to higher purchase cost up front. The huge savings in fuel and maintenance was not recouped before 6½ years because they are operating costs, not total cost of ownership, which includes taxes and finance charges.

As I mentioned, most people don't purchase a car outright, don't drive 30K+ kms a year, and don't take cross-country trips in their car. And they aren't willing to pay $150 more a month for no benefit for 6 years. That's why EV sales have plateau'd for the average buyer, and why HEVs and PHEVs are in such high demand. For those who drive far more kms per year than the average, or who can afford the extra up-front cost in their budget, EVs make sense. But such buyers are the niche in overall car market.

grand_total

We've just bought an HEV, would have gone for a PHEV but for lack of availability. Unfortunately a BEV is out of the question for us because my partner suffers from range anxiety even with an HEV insisting that I stop to fill up if the fuel gauge even approaches 1/4 full even though I know we still have fuel for more that 150km when we reach "empty". I don't have a problem with filling up earlier in winter, but in summer it is annoying. The thought of the same thing with an EV is not something I want to deal with. Now if EVs had an 800-1000km range then I could deal with that.

Hydraglass

grand_total Thats one of the things about my PHEV that I absolutely do love - it has a 71L fuel tank and 50km electric range. On pure gas driving it runs about 7.2L/100 - but with mixed gas/electric it's down around 6.2L -- that means I can drive 1000km on my 71L tank and still have 1/8 tank left at the bottom (slightly less in the winter - about 920km in the winter). By driving conservatively and stretching my ev miles as best I could my all time longest single drive on a road trip between fuel ups (with no recharging of EV battery) was 1175km and the needle was still slightly above E (I drove from North Carolina to Florida back to Georgia on one tank of gas) - there are very few cars of any propulsion type that can easily exceed 1000km range - that would be hard to give up - but it is why the EVs on my mind currently all are in the 500-600km battery range rather than the 300-400km range.

Thane_Bitter

Hydraglass Not a lot of PHEV options, Honda has a CRV but its grown in size from a small compact SUV to a mid size plus model, GM does have the bolt which is just so GM, and Toyota has the prius and rav4, ford has the escape. I wish more makers offered more options for this sort of vehicle because someone in an urban environment could just use the electric part alone for city driving, 75-100km would allow for a lot more flexibility and you can drive as much as you want via gas. I like the VW retro bus but 80k+ for the base model all electric vehicle is a lot of money, its also bloated in size as well as weight.

Hydraglass

digitalfutur As I mentioned, most people don't purchase a car outright, don't drive 30K+ kms a year, and don't take cross-country trips in their car. And they aren't willing to pay $150 more a month for no benefit for 6 years. That's why EV sales have plateau'd for the average buyer, and why HEVs and PHEVs are in such high demand. For those who drive far more kms per year than the average, or who can afford the extra up-front cost in their budget, EVs make sense. But such buyers are the niche in overall car market.

This is where I fall - I drive 41,000km/year on average -- some years pushing 50,000km depending on personal trips. My commute is 250km round trip 3 days a week - that is 750km/week x roughly 50 weeks = 37,500km just for driving to work. Add in 80km/week for personal stuff, that's 4000km/yr - at 41,500km. If we say drive to Florida that's 5000km round trip - I'll subtract off 2 weeks of work for 1500km, but it's still an extra 3500km. Add in a trip to PEI or Nova Scotia and thats 3,000km - take a week of work off and still 2250 more km -- so it's not hard to get into the 50,000km/year range. Thats why the $4000 increase in price for my PHEV already paid for itself in 3 years with just about a 2L/100 savings. If I saved all my fuel for electric, I would be somewhere around another $10,000 in savings already (7000L more fuel I would eliminate).

gwailodan

With the surprise ending of the Federal $5000 subsidy, I think EV sales are going to be plummeting.

Hydraglass

gwailodan The vast majority weren't eligible anyway - only relatively lower cost "economy" EVs qualified - you weren't getting that on the Mercedes EQ's or The Volvo EX's or the Tesla S/X or the Rivians or F150Lightnings... most of those buyers were paying rack rate already (like myself on my Volvo PHEV - it was $64,000 for the non PHEV and $68,000 for the PHEV version - there was no $5k from the gov even then in '22.

digitalfutur

For those who own a Tesla, he salutes you !

ElQuintron

digitalfutur Funny and sad, all at once.

bbbc

ElQuintron

I was wondering what the lightning bolt was above your avatar. Now I see that you're a mod. Oh boy, I better be on my best behaviour. 👼

I'm hoping we can get CanPol back. 🤞

digitalfutur For those who own a Tesla, he salutes you !

Yes, he salutes you like the Romans.

digitalfutur

A different kind of salute...Tesla prices increases effective Feb 1st.

Model 3 Long Range RWD: +$4,000
Model 3 Long Range AWD: +$8,000
Model 3 Performance: +$9,000
Model Y (all trims): +$4,000
Model S (all trims): +$4,000
Model X (all trims): +$4,000

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-announces-significant-price-increases-up-to-9000-for-all-models-in-canada-on-february-1/

Hydraglass

digitalfutur Not shocking with the exchange rate up almost 10% and everything tesla being built in the US.

FrathosCAN

digitalfutur The loss of the Canadian Federal EV rebate already biased me towards considering a non-EV vehicle replacement and those new price increases effective February 1 will definitely make me avoid buying a Tesla. 🫤

Just my luck that the EV rebate goes away & Trump's tariff threats & resulting Canadian retaliatory tariffs are going to increase prices just as I was waiting for the Canadian International Auto Show in February to look at new cars for a possible purchase this year.

[deleted]

digitalfutur A different kind of salute...Tesla prices increases effective Feb 1st.

Could be more if Canada decides to tariff Tesla vehicles.

taraf

Ehh. I wouldn't buy a Tesla even if they paid me. Not unless they turfed Musk.

There's plenty of other EVs on the market that don't come with the baggage. At the risk of straying into canpol, I'm wondering if we're going to see a relaxing of the tariffs against Chinese EVs next month....