3 Students have washed up dead - no ideas why.

Hydraglass

Something fishy afoot. Too many to be coincidence
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/sahil-kumar-found-1.7561117

3 times in the last few months a young college/university student from India has gone missing, only to be found drowned and washed up on shore a few days or weeks later. So far officials have treated them all as “accidental” as far as public information is concerned. This is… fishy.

px_eliezer_

Hydraglass

Very strange and disturbing, indeed.

Dks01

This is not new. This is eerily similar to the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW).

In 2023, Statistics Canada released a report showing that Indigenous women and girls were six times more likely to be murdered than other groups of people in Canada. Between 2009 and 2021, Indigenous women and girls made up of 2% and 3% of the Canadian population, yet represented 5% and 7% of homicide victims. The United Nations (in addition to Canadian and Manitoba‐led inquiries) have consistently noted that the deaths, and the failure to seek justice for these victims, are a clear violation of international and domestic law and demonstrate the deadly intersections of racism, colonization, misogyny and homophobia.

These statistics do not give a name or a face to these daughters, granddaughters, sisters, aunts, mothers, grandmothers and friends – human beings – who have experienced this ultimate victimization of ongoing colonialism.

https://humanrights.ca/resource-guide/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-girls-and-2slgbtqi-people#section_1

Hydraglass

Dks01 Whats different here is these folks aren’t particularly an at risk group - they are young, healthy, somewhat athletic, male, speak English, educated, etc – no one would generally consider them in any sort of risk group other than being temporary immigrants from south Asia for their education. They have cell phones, friends, roommates, families they are in touch with, have enough money for travel, likely have access to credit and cash to get ubers and trains and transit passes…. and yet are washing up on beaches/shorelines dead. Where a lot of the violence and failures of the system for MMIW are within their own communities, and they are often in at risk situations - domestic violence, friends/neighbours in illicit substance related activity, some are homeless, at risk simply for being female, etc…

This seems… almost specifically targeted. I’m not into the south Asian culture scene at all, I don’t speak hindi, I have very few people I work with who are - so I don’t know enough to say - but is it possible there is India-based organized crime taking root in Ontario?

Dks01

Hydraglass You deny that racism exists, then? And no, MMIW is societal. To suggest that their deaths come from only within their own community is to deny the systemic racism at the root of the MMIW deaths. To suggest that the three deaths is “their” problem is a blinkered understanding. Three deaths are three deaths that affect all of us.

bjlockie

Dks01 To suggest that the three deaths is “their” problem is a blinkered understanding.

I didn’t get the impression he said that.
Are you suggesting it is racist to have a theory that that it could be due to Indian organized crime?

Somewhat-Reticent

bjlockie Victim-blaming?

Dks01

Somewhat-Reticent Victim blaming is another guise for racism.

Dks01

bjlockie It is racism to suggest the deaths might be by an “ Indian crime ring” without evidence. All options are open.

Hydraglass

Dks01 When 3 very identical people have died in almost identical circumstances, you start looking for a connection - chances of it being random acts or accidental trends to zero while the chances of it having some sort of connection tend to 100%. As I said - I don’t know enough about south Asian culture in ON to know if that would even be a thing, but if you found 3 middle aged guys named Antonio from Calabria washed up on shore, it wouldn’t take long for someone to say “'Ndrangheta?” – it’s far from saying it is their fault, or something they got into, or victim blaming, its more like - what group/people would target 3 (or more) people of a very similar demographic in relatively identical ways - sure there’s a non-zero chance it could be the work of some new mysterious serial killer who hates south Asian college students - anything is possible - but what is more probable statistically?

Hydraglass

Dks01 It is racism to suggest the deaths might be by an “ Indian crime ring” without evidence. All options are open.

No one said they weren’t - but statistically what is more likely? 3 completely random events of 3 people of the same demographic with the same results? Or some sort of connection? Historically when 3 people of an identical demographic have roughly identical fates, there’s a connection. Organized crime? Serial killer? Gang violence? we’ve seen all of them - so we’re looking for what has the highest likelihood first. What is more important is that someone holds those with investigative power to actually looking and not chalking them up to “just another accident” – one is an accident - 2 is a coincidence - 3 is something fishy.

Hydraglass

Dks01 Well I had a chance at break this morning to sit and talk with one of our employees here on my team that immigrated from northern India about 5 years ago, his thought and take on it is there’s an “almost organized crime” level of blackmail and economic fraud he has been seeing with his fellow people in the community, often as part of their student visa process. To “get to Canada” many of these students go through private “visa brokers” back home in India - they help them get their paperwork together, they have immigration lawyers and contacts here in Canada, and they generally if not promise, at least offer a level of assurance “You’ll get in, for a fee”. Often that fee is split into payments - due every semester that they are returning back for school another big chunk of cash is due - and its often not a small fee they are charging for doing this - thousands of dollars per semester - often as much as tuition itself. If you or your family or whoever is late on those payments, things can go south for you. Normally it just means they’ll get your visa cancelled on you and you’re going home – but apparently some of them are a little more… aggressive… in their attempts to get their fees. His thought is these victims may have had connections to those “more nefarious brokers” and had “overdue” situations, or were getting pressured to make more and more payments than originally agreed upon and weren’t doing that.

Dks01

Hydraglass And all is idle speculation.

Dks01

Hydraglass Might be true. Might not be. It appears there is some kind of organized crime ring disrupting the towing industry, as well. https://www.cp24.com/local/peel/2025/06/16/violent-crime-group-linked-to-extortion-attempts-and-dozens-of-staged-collisions-in-gta-police-say/

Hydraglass

Dks01 And all is idle speculation.

Thats what we’re here for sir - we’re not the police nor the investigative branch of CSIS or the RCMP. We’re here to idle speculate, come up with plausible scenarios, and keep our eyes open.

Dks01

Hydraglass Which is a useless waste of time. We had a homicide here two years ago. Three Scots are in an extradition hearing right now. The police knew far more than they said and idle speculation was quite wrong. Justice will be done, in time.

Hydraglass

Dks01 Which is a useless waste of time. We had a homicide here two years ago. Three Scots are in an extradition hearing right now. The police knew far more than they said and idle speculation was quite wrong. Justice will be done, in time.

Errr… that’s what I’m doing here - wasting time - something to do when I’m bored or need to change brain gears for a few minutes - why are you here? To complain that others are wasting their time here? That itself would be… a waste of time 😛

Sparkchaser

Hydraglass sit and talk with one of our employees here on my team that immigrated from northern India about 5 years ago, his thought and take on it is there’s an “almost organized crime” level of blackmail and economic fraud he has been seeing with his fellow people in the community, often as part of their student visa process. To “get to Canada” many of these students go through private “visa brokers” back home in India

Maybe OT but just wondering. Is there a large Indian immigrant population there? We have here but they are mostly professionals and a spouse and children. Their children’s education is very important to them but since they are here there is not a problem.

Hydraglass

Sparkchaser Over the last 20 years there was a massive influx of south Asian students to colleges and universities in Ontario. Thats a whole other topic to get into - but recently the feds put a pretty big brake on those student visas and the net result has been colleges shuttering large portions of their course catalogues without the income and students from south Asia. The population of Ontario is 16.2 million – there are about 1.6 million south Asian immigrants in Ontario - about 10% of the overall population – with many of those 1.6 million highly clustered around areas with higher education, especially the Toronto area. The “dream” they were generally following was: family manages to save up enough money to send son or daughter to college/university in Ontario. While there for 3-4 years on student visa they apply for skilled permanent resident status and they get settled with a job and PR. Then that “anchor” person can sponsor further family members PR applications to come over - sometimes parents, siblings, significant others, etc.

In general they have integrated relatively well to life here - I taught hundreds in the local college between 2014-2023 in mechanical and electrical programs and probably 75% were intelligent and well suited to be successful - similar to traditional non-immigrant students. Decent English language skills, etc.

It wasn’t cheap for them. Non-resident tuition even at a technical college program runs $15-$20k/year, for a minimum of 2 years, many programs are 3 - that could be $50-$60k. They are often as I mentioned “on the hook” for another big chunk of money to their visa brokers/immigration consultants as well - I’ve heard $25k as a not unusual amount - add in cost of living here (rent, food, etc) and you’re around $100k Canadian.

Dks01

Hydraglass it started in the mid-70’s. I noticed it at U of T then.