Suspected Drunk Driver Causes Accident: 3 Children Dead, 3 Injured

GrumpyCanadian · 2025-05-19T18:41:16+00:00

It looks like we’re back to this same old tragic story: a 19-year-old driver exited a Toronto highway at excessive speed, jumping a median and ramming a mini-van stopped at a traffic light. Two teens and one younger child are dead, one other child and two adults were injured. The driver who caused the accident is suspected to have been “impaired”, but survived and was able to walk and climb into the police vehicle as he was arrested. I haven’t seen any specific mention of what they meant by “impaired”, but the police spokesman seemed to imply that the driver was thought to be drunk. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/three-children-dead-highway-401-crash-etobicoke-1.7538219

Somewhat-Reticent

Both carrot and stick are needed. Some are lazy or brats, some are not.

JRB-Ware

taraf That’s perilously close to arguing for eugenics.

No it’s not.

Crime is largely caused by bad people and not bad circumstances. It is important to acknowledge that there is evil in the world. The lazy, the greedy and the jealous. People without a moral compass who are out for themselves.

taraf History will judge us by how we treat the least among us.

No.

History will judge us on how well we protect the most vulnerable in society against the monsters. The murderers, rapists and thieves.

px_eliezer_

[deleted] There’s never been “no crime”. but if the would be criminals are aware of HARSH consequences, they will think twice.

Right now there are very few immediate consequences, people get released the same day for robberies, car thefts, home invasions, etc etc… and younger and younger people are being drawn into the life of crime because of even fewer immediate consequences, they get the protections of the YCJA, etc, etc…

The policies that have been adopted over the past 10 years or so favour the criminals, rather than the safety of the public.

Agree…

Same is happening in many jurisdictions down here.

The poor people are the main victims of the criminals.

The sober drivers and pedestrians are the victims of the habitual drunk drivers.

taraf

JRB-Ware Crime is largely caused by bad people and not bad circumstances.

What, exactly, is the proper word to describe removing undesireables because they’re born that way and have no place in society?

JRB-Ware

taraf because they’re born that way

Wrong again. Humans have free will. People know right from wrong. They choose to be “that way”. That is what makes them bad, i.e. evil intent.

When people choose to break society’s accepted norms and commit crime upon innocent victims they must be treated as the criminals that they are. People who choose to murder, rape and steal have forfeited their place in our society. That is why we have prisons. If it was only about “rehabilitation” then they could be rehabilitated without prisons. But we know that is not so because it is not so.

taraf

JRB-Ware Wrong again. Humans have free will. People know right from wrong. They choose to be “that way”. That is what makes them bad, i.e. evil intent.

You’re not asking “why” enough. Either they’re born with the “evil gene”, or there’s something environmental that influences whether they end up committing a crime. And if it’s the latter, then we’re failing them as a society, and failing to protect their victims, by not addressing that underlying cause.

Because despite what you may have heard from your favourite politicians, prison isn’t a deterrent. It can be instrumental in rehabilitation, but the thought of going to jail isn’t going to prevent a crime of need – in other words, if you haven’t eaten in days, jail’s not going to prevent you from stealing a loaf of bread.

Somewhat-Reticent

Vengeance and punishment are beyond our pay grade, but
containment and control are the purview of government and civil society.
Some require constant active management, which is never cheap.

digitalfutur

[deleted] Without data that shows that “recidivism has gone through the roof”, it’s just opinion. Do provide the data if you want to discuss facts. Repeating opinion does not make it a fact.

Also, in the other case you’re referring to, Mario Muzzo was held custody from his arrest in Sept 2015 prior to his convictions in March 2016. He was granted day parole, i.e. returning to jail nightly, in April 2020 and full parole in February 2021. Following that a 12 driving ban.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/muzzo-sentence-court-decision-1.3510688

Lastly, in Ontario anyone convicted of impaired driving causing death gets an automatic lifetime driving suspension, as well as installation of an ignition interlock on their vehicle.
https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1004598/ontario-taking-impaired-drivers-off-the-road

Since you’ve made it clear that, in your view, lax sentencing is the major cause of crime, what type of sentence do you think it’s appropriate for an impaired driving causing death conviction?

Dks01

[deleted] but if the would be criminals are aware of HARSH consequences, they will think twice.

If what you said was true, we would have capital punishment for the smallest infraction. We don’t. You assume a logical thought process. You appear not to know how people think.

Dks01

JRB-Ware Humans have free will. People know right from wrong. They choose to be “that way”. That is what makes them bad, i.e. evil intent.

When people choose to break society’s accepted norms and commit crime upon innocent victims they must be treated as the criminals that they are. People who choose to murder, rape and steal have forfeited their place in our society. That is why we have prisons. If it was only about “rehabilitation” then they could be rehabilitated without prisons. But we know that is not so because it is not so.

That is why we do not have a “prison” system in Canada. We have a Correctional Service. The CSC mandate is,

…to contribute to public safety by actively encouraging and assisting offenders to become law-abiding citizens, while exercising reasonable, safe, secure and humane control.

https://www.canada.ca/en/correctional-service/corporate.html

Dks01

JRB-Ware History will judge us on how well we protect the most vulnerable in society against the monsters. The murderers, rapists and thieves.

No, we will be judged on how we treat the least in society; the poor, the addicted, the hungry, the lonely, the victims, the criminals. It we do not treat all of them with compassion, we will be judged to have failed them.

[deleted]

Dks01 If what you said was true, we would have capital punishment for the smallest infraction. We don’t. You assume a logical thought process. You appear not to know how people think.

Harsh like JAIL. I would support capital punishment only for the worst crimes like 1st degree premeditated murder, killing of police officers, etc.

Rest of them just toss in jail for a long time. Their buddies might think twice, and if they don’t, they will be in jail for a long time and the public will be safer. You seem to think the public doesn’t deserve this. You live in a little sheltered town far away from big city crime issues.

taraf

digitalfutur Without data that shows that “recidivism has gone through the roof”, it’s just opinion. Do provide the data if you want to discuss facts. Repeating opinion does not make it a fact.

Even if we grant the premise for the sake of argument, it doesn’t prove that a rise in recidivism is related to lax sentencing. Access to the resources that are needed to truly rehabilitate while in prison and support in reintegrating into society after released are huge factors in how successful that rehabilitation will be, and both of those are areas where we need to improve.

Dks01

[deleted] Harsh like JAIL.

Have you even been in a jail? You seem to have some curious ideas about what a jail is and does. Fortunately, parliament has already spoken on capital punishment and it will not return.

Somewhat-Reticent

[deleted] The purpose of jails is containment & control.
Pandering to persecution erodes their effectiveness, and escalates costs.

Astyanax

taraf What, exactly, is the proper word to describe removing undesireables because they’re born that way and have no place in society?

Policing.

Somewhat-Reticent

Astyanax I suspect you misunderstood “removing”.

Astyanax

Dks01 That is why we do not have a “prison” system in Canada. We have a Correctional Service.

Whitewashing with semantics and euphemisms. That’s like saying “We don’t have prisons here. We have ‘penitentiaries’ where criminals can ‘repent’ their sins to God” while serving their sentences in the same hellhole.

Dks01

Astyanax In this country policing does not remove anyone. That is solely the responsibility of the judicial system. Surely that aspect of the Rule of Law still exists?

Dks01

Astyanax That’s like saying “We don’t have prisons here. We have ‘penitentiaries’ where criminals can ‘repent’ their sins to God” while serving their sentences in the same hellhole.

That presumes some kind of Christian belief framework. That is not assumed, at least here. Belief is private, personal and free to practice in any correctional facility here. The constitution also allows those incarcerated to vote.

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