"Made In Canada", eh?

GrumpyCanadian

I have a product that probably pre-dates Trump’s inauguration, so it would have nothing to do with trying to leverage the now-common “buy Canadian” trend, but I thought it was peculiar. Many of the Arctic Gardens bags of frozen vegetables have a maple leaf and “MADE IN CANADA” fairly prominently on the front of the package. On one product I have, however, there is also something else printed in black against a dark background on the back of the bag: “Produit des États-Unis”. So, which is it?

If the vegetables are grown in the United States, and flash-frozen shortly after being harvested, what is left to be done, once they arrive in Canada, that accounts for at least 51% of the cost of producing the item, allowing it to be “Made in Canada”? If they were already frozen, what is left to be done, other than packing them into the zippered bags?

Am I missing something?

Dks01

Repackaging and shipping can be 51% of the cost of production between field and table, so yes, that’s a reasonable understanding. I have a bag of Green Giant brand mixed veggies in the freezer that says “Canada A” which is the CFIA grading and Printed in USA on the bag (unless the veggies are made on a 3D printer) but no place of origin. A bag in the freezer of PC broccoli says in large black print on a white bag, PRODUCT OF MEXICO and CANADA A, the CFIA grading. Confusing, eh?

GrumpyCanadian

Dks01 I would have thought that actually growing the produce and harvesting it would have accounted for the bulk of the cost of such products. If they’re grown, harvested and frozen in the United States, shipping from the United States cannot be included in the part of the cost of production in Canada (or I would expect not).

If they grow and pick, but freeze in Canada, then they can’t really claim that they’re frozen “at the peak of freshness”, if they ship them from another country first. That’s why I find that particular instance so strange.

I am aware of the grading designations, but “Canada A” doesn’t at all imply that it was made in Canada. That distinction even made the news some time ago, when they were discussing product labelling of apple juice.

Somewhat-Reticent

There was a time when growing and harvesting bore most of the cost.
Over time, storage, packaging and distribution logistics have certainly changed.
And many costs became hard to separate out and sort ( hidden by accounting ) .

GrumpyCanadian

Somewhat-Reticent I can’t really comment on the details, but you may not be aware that, by law, they must be able to show that at least 51% of the cost of production comes from Canadian activities, in order to be allowed to label a product “Made in Canada”. That is the basis for my curiosity; if they’re buying produce from the United States (so growing and harvesting are decidedly not occurring in Canada), and the product may even have been flash-frozen at the U.S. facility, how can packaging (in a simple zippered bag) and shipping to distributors account for at least 51% of production?

urbanriot

GrumpyCanadian

they must be able to show that at least 51% of the cost of production comes from Canadian activities

I can’t say I’m a fan of that. “Made in Canada” should mean it was made in Canada, Canadian content, by Canadian workers.

So let’s say we can’t do certain foods all year long, fine, then “Packaged in Canada”.

I’ve started seeing a lot of Canadian flags on products that aren’t entirely made in Canada and they don’t come from Canadian companies.

Astyanax

GrumpyCanadian how can packaging (in a simple zippered bag) and shipping to distributors account for at least 51% of production?

If the product itself is cheap enough the packaging and distribution of it costs more than the value of the product itself. To get a package of asparagus from the fields of a California farm to the frozen vegetable aisle of a Toronto grocery store I wouldn’t be surprised it cost more than the actual cost of the asparagus.

InternetJeff

Astyanax To get a package of asparagus from the fields of a California farm to the frozen vegetable aisle of a Toronto grocery store I wouldn’t be surprised it cost more than the actual cost of the asparagus.

The alternative would be for people to just go without anything that they can’t grow locally. Welcome back to the 1930s.

px_eliezer_

urbanriot I can’t say I’m a fan of that. “Made in Canada” should mean it was made in Canada, Canadian content, by Canadian workers.

Adding to confusion—as I see it, the word “MADE” is appropriate for manufactured products, whether razor blades, shoes, or washing machines.

Fruits and vegetables are not manufactured, terms such as GROWN or PACKAGED make more sense. And something may be grown in one country, while packaged or processed in another.

Labels should indicate both, if applicable.

urbanriot

InternetJeff

The alternative would be for people to just go without anything that they can’t grow locally. Welcome back to the 1930s.

Theoretically we can grow almost anything locally with greenhouses, we have plenty of land to host them. Free trade made that unnecessary although I wouldn’t be surprised if we circled back to that at some point. The only exception I see are tropical trees like bananas, mangoes, avocado, etc..

px_eliezer_

urbanriot The only exception I see are tropical trees like bananas, mangoes, avocado, etc..

Oh, just wait a while. 😃

The annual average temperature in Canada has increased at roughly twice the global mean (average) rate. Patterns are different across regions of the country, however. Temperatures have increased more in northern Canada than in southern Canada. Annual mean temperature over northern Canada increased by roughly 3 times the global mean warming rate.

The effects of widespread warming are evident in many parts of Canada and are projected to intensify in the future. In Canada, these effects include more extreme heat, less extreme cold, longer growing seasons, shorter snow and ice cover seasons, earlier spring peak streamflow, thinning glaciers, thawing permafrost, and rising sea level.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/temperature-change.html

urbanriot

px_eliezer_ well, you might be onto something, piggybacking off your link:
https://natural-resources.canada.ca/climate-change/climate-change-impacts-forests/growing-season

There has been a significant increase in growing season length (approximately 2 days/decade) across the country over the 1950 to 2010 period. If CO2 emissions continue to increase, it is projected that growing seasons at the end of the 21st century will be 20 to 40 days longer than those currently experienced across much of Canada.

Somewhat-Reticent

Seems better than the year without summer, as long as it’s not drought-ridden.

Dks01

InternetJeff Enjoy your turnips, carrots and squash. Those root veggies were staples in the 1930’s. Even potatoes were somewhat seasonal. Emptying a potato house in April is an experience not to be missed. No potatoes until late August.

Astyanax

urbanriot Theoretically we can grow almost anything locally with greenhouses, we have plenty of land to host them.

How much does an all-Canadian organic, greenhouse-grown head of lettuce cost versus a tariff-ridden, ugly American-grown one? 😉

urbanriot

Astyanax

How much does an all-Canadian organic, greenhouse-grown head of lettuce cost versus a tariff-ridden, ugly American-grown one?

In a tariff world it probably wouldn’t be that much more.

Smaller greenhouses are expensive to heat if they’re not on electricity or natural gas but when you have a large operation that’s a part of the gas or electricity grid it can be cost effective.

Thane_Bitter

Astyanax Less in some cases, Albertian grown https://www.nofrills.ca/en/live-lettuce-tri-mix-1-unit/p/21178850_EA vs US California https://www.nofrills.ca/en/romaine-lettuce/p/20065036001_EA

The plus with hydroponics is there is less of a chance for leave contamination, as you are not doubltly aware over the years there have been a number of recalls from US and Mexican lettuce due to contamination with salmonella or E coli likely from “agricultural grade” water.

This time of the year hydroponic doesn’t really need heating or extra lighting to grow, and it will grow faster than stuff in a garden.

GrumpyCanadian

Astyanax Oh, good; an easy question! Romaine lettuce hearts from California or Mexico are typically sold here in bags of three or six. The bags of three usually sell for around $5.99 when not on sale. Local romaine lettuce is not in season yet, but usually sells for $2.49 to $2.99 each, for the whole head. On the other hand, we have greenhouse-grown head lettuce (not romaine usually, often boston or similar types) year-round, in clamshell packages of two compact heads that sell for anywhere from $3.49 to $4.50, depending on the store (often $2.99 on sale). I’ve mentioned before that it tends to be fresher and retain better flavour, compared to the imported versions, even in January.

It is interesting to note that lettuce is not marked with the symbol designating a tariffed U.S.-origin product.

Hydraglass

GrumpyCanadian It is interesting to note that lettuce is not marked with the symbol designating a tariffed U.S.-origin product.

Speaking of that, I was just in the grocery store 5 minutes ago getting a snack and I noticed the entire display of Avocados was now with a big sign “Product of Mexico” - for years they were always Calif. avocados. Price was roughly the same ($5 for a bag of 5).

GrumpyCanadian

px_eliezer_ urbanriot The only exception I see are tropical trees like bananas, mangoes, avocado, etc..

Oh, just wait a while. 😃

We don’t have to wait. There is an organisation in Quebec that is growing “tropical” fruit here right now. It is not yet at commercial scale, but in the interview, the woman running the show shared that she aims to expand significantly, with the goal of being able to offer locally-grown fruit in stores, bananas in particular, as well as others. It is greenhouse-based, using a living fish pond for irrigation needs and organic fertiliser.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/quebec-company-hopes-its-plan-to-sell-bananas-other-exotic-produce-bears-fruit/

It’s not just in Quebec; a southern Ontario grower had a similar project a few years ago.