Microsoft Quietly Deletes Guide on How to Install Windows 11 on Unsupported PCs

Andyross

Microsoft has been routinely changing its online support articles about Windows 11. The "ways to install" the operating system have recently been revised, and there are now no "official" workarounds for installing the latest Windows release to unsupported, older machines.

https://www.techspot.com/news/106619-microsoft-hides-official-workaround-installing-windows-11-older.html

Edit: Changed to a more open news link.

takeahike

Andyross
Pretty sneaky but what else is new? You can't lead people down the garden path, giving them support all these years and then try to pull the plug just before the exit. People's reliance all these years with MS supporting 11 on "unsupported" machines reeks of illegally allowing detrimental reliance on their conduct to the point where civilly they would probably be legally prevented from pulling the plug now if someone pursues a case. See: Promissory Estoppel. Not only did they publish this one thing that was removed but they are in fact responsible for creating all the other bypasses that allow 11 to be installed on unsupported machines, so they are guilty on even a higher level (see my email to Pete Batard, the developer of Rufus, and his response to me about how the Rufus bypass was created). In addition to this, pulling the plug at this point will wind up with at least 400,000 machines perfectly capable of running 11 or 12 needlessly being dumped in landfills, an environmental disaster that the current administration could but probably will not pursue, despite the fact that they certainly should as an environmental matter. My impression is that all this talk, just like everything before it is just that, and that nothing will change and they will continue to allow 11 and even 12 to run on unsupported machines via bypasses despite all their empty rhetoric to the contrary. I hope I am right. If not, maybe someone will take them to court--it could well be worth it as a huge class action given the number of victims.

Hi [me],

Thanks for the heads up, which is in line with how Microsoft seems to be gearing towards with the upcoming Windows 11 24H2 release.

The first thing I'm going to point out is that I did not come up with the bypasses. Microsoft themselves added the bypasses, then someone from Microsoft publicized them, so that other people, including myself, could use them.

So my stance on this is pretty much: "Microsoft giveth, Microsoft taketh away" and my plans with regards to getting involved in working around new restrictions (or the removal of the existing Microsoft provided bypasses) are highlighted at: https://github.com/pbatard/rufus/wiki/FAQ#user-content-Do_you_plan_to_work_around_the_new_hardware_requirements_limitations_of_Windows_11_24H2

As you will see, I am not planning to invest much time trying to work around any new restrictions or removal of existing bypasses.

I will also state that there's very little that will be accomplished if you only complain about this potential new restrictive behaviour to myself or on user forums. If you are truly interested in seeing change in the matter, you will need to complain to Microsoft directly, because anything else is utterly pointless and will not accomplish anything. Especially, even if someone can hack upcoming versions of Windows to restore the bypasses, then, because all the Windows binaries are digitally signed, it will be very easy for Microsoft to prevent the hack from working if they start enforcing digital signatures (which they don't really do right now, but which they are likely to do in the future), in which case you are wasting your time not complaining directly to the party that is enacting the policy, i.e. Microsoft. There's one way, and only one way, to help users on this matter: Rally enough people and let Microsoft know so that they do not enforce these changes.

Regards,

/Pete

Dear Pete:

I hope that you are well and in good spirits. Thank you again so much for your excellent work and prior consistent responses every time I have contacted you for help.

The reason I am writing now is because I was wondering whether you've seen a YouTube view that you can view here about the very real possibility that Microsoft will make every attempt to block installation of Windows 11 on unsupported systems--and apparently of course the main part of this effort will be against your bypasses that have worked so well--starting in 2025 or have otherwise heard of this plan by Microsoft. I have not yet tried to upgrade my unsupported systems that currently have version 23H2 to 24H2 but I assume that your bypass will still work on those. Of course your opinion on the possibility that Microsoft will be able to successfully to this in 2025 or whether they are really serious about it is very important to many users. You can view the thread on DSLReports where I became aware of all this here <https://www.dslreports.com/forum/ r33947217-News-Windows-11-Microsoft-might-be-removing-unsupported-PCs- in-2025> that has some interesting comments on the matter. In is my opinion that such a move by Microsoft if successful is not only the epitome of greed and complete disregard for the plight of those who cannot easily afford to unnecessarily purchase a new system but is a also a potential environmental disaster, making the purchase of a new system and unnecessarily dumping their old ones into already overfilled landfills almost required by possibly a billion people to maintain security, especially because support for Windows 10 will be also be ending right around the same time.

Anyway, thank you again so much for your attention to this matter and whatever you can provide in the way of your thoughts on it.

Sincerely,

me

Blackbird

It's taken 4 years of Win11 to reach this point. But one has to wonder how long Win11 itself will remain viable if/until MS decides to impose further new hardware restrictions that obsolete the Win11-compatible machines in favor of a further hardware-demanding Windows iteration.

OmegaWolf747

So wasteful that MS wants people to send perfectly good machines to the landfill because they lack a certain CPU class or TPM. Greed for greed's sake.

taraf

They want to force full disk encryption.
They also want to force an online account with automatic backup to onedrive.

You know what other kind of software encrypts your drive after making an offsite backup of your files?

OmegaWolf747

taraf Malware?

taraf

yup. I'm all for full disk encryption - I use it on my own devices. but I use it by choice, and I understand the risks if my TPM fails and I can't find my recovery key. My problem with Microsoft forcing it isn't the encryption in and of itself, it's that most Windows users aren't going to understand the implications or take proper care of their recovery key.

but I do have a problem with the online account requirement. The idea that you could lose all of your files because Microsoft decides they don't like you is way too much risk, not to mention the loss of data sovereignty.

danf

taraf

The reason Microsoft wants you to have a newer device is so automatic encryption can happen - and when it does, it will automatically upload your recovery key to your Microsoft account. Similar to how Apple uploads your key to iCloud.

Where I work we do enforce this through Intune policies and such but we redirect it to our Entra ID tenant so admins can access the recovery key(s) when needed. However, we can force it on devices even if it doesn't 100% meet the modern standby, etc requirements.

Portable devices are more important to encrypt as they have a higher likelihood of getting stolen.

However, non enterprise users should have a choice. I wasn't too happy when my old Surface Pro 3 was encrypted without my knowledge. It has a Microsoft account because I had to install a new version of Office on it (you have to have a Microsoft Account to install Office now.) When it crapped the bad and the encryption broke after some Windows Update, I was able to recover as it did keep the recovery key in my online account.

Astyanax

danf

danf The reason Microsoft wants you to have a newer device is so automatic encryption can happen - and when it does, it will automatically upload your recovery key to your Microsoft account.

I was very glad they did this. I capitulated to MS's demands and bought an old, cheap Dell Optiplex that had a TPM to replace my perfectly working 11-year-old Dell XPS game machine. I don't game anymore so I didn't need all that horsepower but still giving up that nice machine hurt.

Anyway after running the Optiplex for a month I was bored and thought it would be a good idea to clear the TPM to "clean out" any old data from the previous owner. That's when I learned the Bitlocker keys are also kept there but also are kept with my MS account that I used with the machine. It became a nice yet scary learning experience. 😉

Astyanax

takeahike See: Promissory Estoppel. Not only did they publish this one thing that was removed but they are in fact responsible for creating all the other bypasses that allow 11 to be installed on unsupported machines

Yeah but good luck establishing the "promissory" part. They own the software and can change it whenever they like.

Also remember when Win 10 was supposedly the "last Windows version?" Have you been holding your nose all this time about that too?

Somewhat-Reticent

takeahike at least 400,000 machines perfectly capable of running 11 or 12 needlessly being dumped in landfills

Or create a Market Opportunity for Refurbishment,
Or abandoning Microsoft Windows and embracing other options (HBCD, XFCE, etc),
…

danf

Astyanax

In regards to Windows 11, it still is version 10 in the backend. Get the version from the command prompt/powershell and it says Windows version 10.<something>.

takeahike

Astyanax
Well, you don’t understand the legal concept of estoppel (and that’s ok). It may not be a perfect case but rarely is there ever one and there is a substantial chance that the doctrine could apply (it has nothing to do with who owns what). Very simply, when someone lets you get away with something over time despite the written contact saying the contrary in legal parlance it can preclude them from enforcing the literal language essentially because since they haven’t in the past they have in practice waived the right to do so. Since the literal language has not been enforced and the other party has conducted themselves accordingly it is often held by the courts that it would be unfair to change what has happened in practice and was not previously contested because the “breaching” party has relied on the conduct of the first party to his detriment (this reliance fits the definition of consideration, the essential element of value exchanged in any contract that makes it enforceable). See the example at the link quoted below. Even though the example speaks of an express promise there is no real difference between an express promise and one implied through one’s actions that was relied upon to one’s detriment (in our example running 11 on unsupported hardware for years without penalty despite the EULA prohibiting that).

A landlord informs a tenant that rent has been reduced, for example, because there was construction or a lapse in utility services. If the tenant relies on this statement in choosing to remain in the premises, the landlord could be estopped from collecting the full rent.

Blackbird

The simple reality is that Microsoft does indeed own the software. While they may have created or permitted workarounds during its past version deployments that allow it to run successfully on machines not "up to specs" (in its sole judgment), they have always also issued well-publicized warnings that Win11 is not intended to run on those machines. Think in terms of this all merely having been part of an alpha or beta step in MS's Win11 development process allowing more widespread user surfacing and debugging of other Win11 issues. Never lose sight of the reality that, starting years ago, end users have become Microsoft's beta testers - even on supposedly "final" software and "supported" equipment.

From this point onward, patches and upgrades to Win11 may be released without any assurance they won't fail (or even brick) "unsupported" machines, whereas in the past MS may have expended some effort to prevent that. They may even insert code to prevent further updates/upgrades from installing on such systems. From here on out, it's 'user beware' for those running Win11 on unsupported equipment.

real_aurgathor

Blackbird From this point onward, patches and upgrades to Win11 may be released without any assurance they won't fail (or even brick) "unsupported" machines, whereas in the past MS may have expended some effort to prevent that. They may even insert code to prevent further updates/upgrades from installing on such systems. From here on out, it's 'user beware' for those running Win11 on unsupported equipment.

They can release patches that will not work on unsupported configuration; however, but intentionally bricking pre-existing installs is a major No-No, and I'm fairly certain that they won't do that.

They are trying to push Win 11, and those running on unsupported HW are still boosting the Win 11 numbers. I'm not sure what is the most common missing feature that makes PC non-supported -- I thinks it's either an older CPU or lack of TPM 2.0. I tend to think CPU would be a more serious requirement, but if they didn't enforce it before, they should not start it now. Or if they plan to do it, they should communicate it well in advance, and it should only apply to new features. With respect to TPM 2.0, methinks they could ignore it altogether as long as long as the user clicks some acknowledgement about understanding significantly decreased security because of the lack of TPM, or the lack of TPM 2.0.

real_aurgathor

Somewhat-Reticent

Somewhat-Reticent Or abandoning Microsoft Windows and embracing other options (HBCD, XFCE, etc),

That is easier said than done. While there are a few attempts at alternative OSs; realistically, there are only 3 major choices for x64 PCs

Windows
Apple OS
Unix/Linux (I know that Linux != Unix plus even beyond that, they can subdivided into gazillion different variants; this also includes further derivatives such as Android)

and then everything else such as eComStation, FreeDOS, ReactOS, etc.

Astyanax

takeahike

So did you file your lawsuit against Microsoft yet? Post the link to the link for us to read it! Go get 'em!

takeahike

Astyanax

So did you filed your lawsuit against Microsoft yet?

No, because so far they've been good little boys and have cooperated, but that could change. I'll keep you advised, although since it'll make such a splash that you'll probably see it in the papers! Maybe this would be a case for me to come out of retirement and be chief counsel on--after all, what are class actions really for but to make lawyers all kinds of big bucks while the victims get a mere candy bar???

real_aurgathor

takeahike after all, what are class actions really for but to make lawyers all kinds of big bucks while the victims get a mere candy bar???

🙃

bighorn1

Meh, it's getting worse and worse.
Recently, Microsoft removed 8th, 9th and 10th gen Intel CPUs from list of officially supported CPUs for Win11 24H2.

PL1

bighorn1 Recently, Microsoft removed 8th, 9th and 10th gen Intel CPUs from list of officially supported CPUs for Win11 24H2.

For OEM builders of new machines, retail customers can still upgrade to 24H2.

https://wccftech.com/microsoft-drops-support-for-intels-10th-gen-processors-on-windows-11-24h2/

bighorn1

PL1 Yes, MS added paragraph that clarifies it's for OEM.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-24h2-supported-intel-processors
I also did fresh test install yesterday on 10th gen and 24H2 installed normally with no warnings.

PL1

bighorn1 Yes, MS added paragraph that clarifies it's for OEM.

If you think about it, MS has already been selling Windows 11 to customers with 8th, 9th and 10th gen processors all along. They can't just now cut those people off. It is more likely this happens with the launch of Windows 12, though.