Canada down selects two shipbuilders for future sub project

HELLFIRE

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/08/canada-down-selects-two-shipbuilders-for-future-canadian-patrol-submarine-project/ (Published on 26/08/2025)

The Government of Canada has announced that it has shortlisted two major shipbuilders to continue the procurement process for Canada’s future patrol submarine project (CPSP), which will replace the current fleet of Victoria-class submarines. … Today, the Honourable Joël Lightbound, Minister of Government Transformation, Public Works and Procurement, and the Honourable Stephen Fuhr, Secretary of State (Defence Procurement), announced that the Government of Canada has identified German company Thyssen Krupp Marine Systems (TKMS) and Korean company Hanwha Ocean Co., Ltd. (Hanwha) as the 2 qualified suppliers for the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP). …

Shared this story back in the DSLR days. Figured was worth updating for fellow Canadians.

According to the article, France’s Naval Group, Spain’s Navantia and Sweden’s Saab was also in the running.

Regards

Dks01

HELLFIRE Given that the subs we bought from Royal Navy Used Ship and Submarine Sales were less than reliable, this is probably a better option. Canada has previously bought from German manufacturers such as TKMS when we purchased or rented our Leopard tanks.

Thane_Bitter

Dks01 They were a stop gap measure, and while they have mechanical/electrical issues all four have been greatly impacted by operator errors either while in operation or during servicing/drydock operations. Typically for the sake of political reasons no replacement was considered and they just kicked the dented can down the road.

We do need new subs, we have for sometime but my fear is they aren’t going to be new and shiney for very long if the standards of operation and care aren’t improved.

HELLFIRE

https://www.twz.com/sea/submarine-partnership-pitched-by-germany-and-norway-to-canada – Submarine Partnership Pitched By Germany And Norway To Canada

Germany is offering for Canada to join its Type 212CD submarine program, alongside Norway, as part of a broader defense cooperation that would more closely align Berlin and Ottawa. Canada badly needs a replacement for its aging and troublesome Victoria class diesel-electric submarines, and, in turn, Germany is looking to procure potentially significant numbers of special-mission aircraft from Canada’s Bombardier, among other defense systems. …

Also of note is this from the article : “In an effort to boost the Type 212CD’s chances in Canada, Germany is offering Ottawa the opportunity to manufacture components, or even undertake construction of complete submarines, in local shipyards,” and “Germany is seeking to enhance its cooperation with Canada on raw materials, hydro energy, and liquefied natural gas.”

On one hand, sounds like an offer Canada can’t refuse?

On the other, “The Devil Is [Always] In the Details.”

Regards

InternetJeff

HELLFIRE On one hand, sounds like an offer Canada can’t refuse?

On the other, “The Devil Is [Always] In the Details.”

Captive market.

Dks01

HELLFIRE Given that the UK sold us an expensive set of four used subs, Germany and Norway make sense. There is also a partnership with Finland for a fleet of Arctic class icebreakers. I also expect a mixed buy for F-35’s and possibly Gripen aircraft.

MichelR

Dks01 I really have my doubts about a mixed fleet of fighter jets, given the logistical challenges. But at least we’d have some that don’t spend half their time on the ground for maintenance (I’m not talking about the CF-18). We shall see…

Dks01

MichelR We had that with the CF-5 and the VooDoo.

HELLFIRE

MichelR I really have my doubts about a mixed fleet of fighter jets, given the logistical challenges.

At the same time, what’s that old saying about “putting ones proverbial eggs into one proverbial basket?” 🤔 🤔

shrugs

Regards

MaynardKrebs

MichelR
Posted Gripen’s to the high Arctic is not a bad idea. They aren’t the maintenance queens the F-35 it i. Gripens can patrol the Northwest passage choke points several times per day As global warming makes the passage Ice free more often.

As the Gripen is capable of short field operations, short tactical landing strips would not be a problem to set up. Radar stations could be installed at these locations, and powered by our homegrown Slowpoke 3 and 4 nuclear reactors. These would provide plenty of electrical generation capacity, as well as a reasonable amount of thermal capacityTo keep maintenance equipment, troops, and anything else necessary, warm and powered. The Gripens, coupled with Long-range tanker support would be more efficient and effective for deterrent patrol duties then the F-35. That said, the Bombardier/SAAB Global Eye would be an excellent choice for arctic surveillance as well.

MichelR

Dks01 And the Starfighter too at the same time. But that was a time when multirole fighters weren’t really a thing, so having a mixed fleet was pretty much a requirement. And we had quite a bit of them. I’m not saying I wouldn’t prefer that, I’m saying I’ll be surprised if it happens.

MichelR

HELLFIRE At the same time, what’s that old saying about “putting ones proverbial eggs into one proverbial basket?” 🤔 🤔

Indeed. Especially in this case.

HELLFIRE

Doesn’t relate to the Canadian sub procurement program, but provides some insight in what South Korea has gotten its submarines to do : https://www.twz.com/air/south-korea-has-launched-its-most-advanced-submarine-ever – South Korea Has Launched Its Most Advanced Submarine Ever

… In its Batch I form, the KSS-III already had provisions for six vertical launch system (VLS) cells that are able to accommodate cruise missiles or even submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) … the KSS-III submarines put South Korea in a select group of countries that operate submarines with an SLBM capability; unusually for a weapon of this type, the South Korean weapon has a conventional warhead. …

Regards

Dks01

HELLFIRE Doubtful Canada would have much interest in offensive weapon submarines. HK subs and Arctic patrol capacity matter.

During the Cold War conventional Canadian subs were expert in sinking US aircraft carriers. A Swedish sub did the same to a US carrier in 2005.

HELLFIRE

Dks01 offensive weapon submarines

I get what you’re saying, but virtually no weapon (system) is “defensive” only [/pedantry] 😃 😃

Either way, hope it keeps people informed.

Regards

HELLFIRE

https://nationalsecurityjournal.org/germanys-type-212-aip-stealth-submarine-is-one-of-the-best-on-earth/ – Germany’s Type 212 ‘AIP’ Stealth Submarine Is One of the Best on Earth

… The South Korean firm has reportedly tried to sweeten the deal by offering “extensive offset services,” though Canada has yet to make a decision. …

Unfortunately the supplied link didn’t have specifics of what the South Koreans offered in terms of offsets.

Digging further, this article from May, 2025 offers some insight : https://investornews.com/critical-minerals-rare-earths/seouls-20-billion-pitch-could-rewire-canadas-military-and-its-alliances/ – Seoul’s $20 Billion Pitch Could Rewire Canada’s Military—and Its Alliances

Three South-Korean champions—Hanwha Ocean, Hyundai Heavy Industries and Hanwha Aerospace—have done what Europe’s vaunted shipyards and Washington’s defense giants never dared: they have walked into Ottawa with an unsolicited, government-backed proposal to recapitalize the Canadian Armed Forces from keel to cannon, and to finance the job on Seoul’s tab. … A senior Canadian negotiator confirmed that the Korean bid “explicitly references strategic-resource collaboration”—shorthand for offtake contracts that would swap critical minerals for Korean credit and technology. …

Sounds like both potential partners are making Canada a heckuva offer here!

Regards

MaynardKrebs

HELLFIRE

Korea could offer production of Hyundai EV’s In the former Brampton Stellatis factory, employing Canadian workers.

KingB71

They made similar offers to Poland as well (I’m guessing without the Subs)

Dks01

I wonder if you can find a Hyundai dealer in Iqaluit?

KingB71

Dks01 can’t find an Airbus engine supplier either (GE or Rolls Royce - can’t remember which engine supplier it was when that Swiss Air 777 had to do an emergency landing there a few years ago)

MaynardKrebs

Whatever we purchase should come with the requirement that all the plans, specifications (ie. grade of steel, aluminum, etc.) and the intellectual property (source code & build environment, a.k.a. the ‘secret sauce’) are hosted and updated in-synch in Canada and accessible by DND In the event of a catastrophe, where catastrophe would be defined as an invasion of the supplier country, or the obliteration of the supplier country/supplier by an adversary, or Trump.

InternetJeff

MaynardKrebs Whatever we purchase should come with the requirement that all the plans, specifications…

Yes, that’s called procuring the data rights.

MaynardKrebs

InternetJeff
It’s more than that …. eg. secrets of making 120mm smooth-bore cannon in case the Krups factory is attacked.