SNES YPbPr mod project

codezer0

background context : discovered a thread early on that mentioned discovering how the video encoder chip(s) used on early SNES consoles, while not necessarily capable to deliver a clean RGB signal, were capable of delivering a (240p) component compatible output. Frustratingly, after scoring a second console that was a viable candidate, it was like Google was actively gaslighting me, so I couldn’t find the walkthrough or diagrams again. This many years later, another forum helped me out quite a bit to brain trust it. Oddly of all things, best visual reference came from a Reddit thread that mirrored the mod for their own console and showed a nicer way of attaching the wires.

So with that out of the way, here’s how it’s going so far for me.

Managed to source most of the components and bits I was needing to do the mod from a local electronics shop, so that was a huge plus. Honestly I’m at the point that the less dependent I am on Amazon to fulfill an order, the better. Some $84 later…

Got to a point where, I was ready to test the mod(s) like the Redditor did. At first I plug in, turn the system on with a game, and… I can hear audio, but get no video. Plug in the wife’s S video cable for the console and, video is all garbled. At first I’m thinking I ruined it. However, checking over my work, I notice the wire for the 🟢 video had some excess and touching a neighboring pin. Snip that excess with some flush cutters, and… The fallback s video cable works again. The (Y) signal test is more gray than green, but it is SUPER crispy sharp on the CRT. Success!

The snafu…?

Uhm, I cut the holes for the cables too close together, particularly for the video. As in, I physically couldn’t plug in the remaining cables in. Oops.

Disappointed it’s costing me more than anticipated, but if all I have to do is order a replacement shell to try again? It’s encouraging that this could indeed work out nicely.

urbanriot

codezer0 I have my SNES through the regular cables and it looks great, what could I be missing?

I see a lot of videos online comparing NES mods with original cables and the mods look the same as my NES looks with standard RCA cables to my Sony TV.

codezer0

urbanriot If you want to record or stream from your real hardware, composite leaves a lot to be desired. At this point, Composite is only considered an upgrade (and mod) for an Atari 2600.

Emulation of the hardware often emulates the original colors and source fidelity before it is converted to be fed to a TV of the time.

Nowadays, since you couldn’t even make a manufacturer make a new crt under threat of death, it’s likely just easier for someone to mod their old console to output a better signal than to try and source a display that can process it better. flat panels are also notorious for handling non-native signals poorly.

In my case, I happen to have a CRT TV still, mostly to retain compatibility for light gun games. Being in the states, of course it doesn’t support RGB SCART whatsoever. It does support Component Video, but like one such tv I had back in the day, does not like 480p at all. For my bit of testing before needing to source a new shell for the console, the 240p component gave the sharpest opening text I’d seen out of the console, even compared to the fancy S Video cable. Which itself was already a massive up-shift from Composite.

urbanriot

codezer0 If you want to record or stream from your real hardware

Is that what you’re doing?

I’m just using my many ancient consoles to play games and introduce younger folks in our family to those classic games especially since the 8-bit esthetic took off in the indie crowd a few years ago. I have a NES, Famicom (with floppy disk system), SNES, Genesis, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, and I’m on the hunt for a TG16 / PC Engine. I’m also putting together a MiSTer system with all the parts I have, I just haven’t started building it yet.

For me, all those things actually look great on my CRT Sony TVs which has S-Video, RCA, and component inputs but everything looks great to me so I haven’t thought about modding anything. I don’t know if I have the skills anymore, my hands are not as precise as they once were.

I’m interested in the topic but I’m not sure if it will benefit me…

Zer0Cool

all the snes except for the snesjr have native rbg output capabilities(and even that one just needs a simple 3 wire mod). using something like this https://castlemaniagames.com/products/hd-retrovision-snes which just has a rgb to component adapter to get easy component out would be the easiest way to go.

ugly95

I know there’s still something special about having the old controller in your hand. I still have my NES and SNES (although, I think I only have one tiny TV that still has the input for them anymore). But, I think I’m at the point that if I ever wanted to fire up one of those old games, I’d just use Retroarch on my desktop, or on a miniPC I have connected to a TV.

I do think think that these are interesting projects, though.

urbanriot

ugly95 I know there’s still something special about having the old controller in your hand.

100% agree with this. I can crush Super Mario Bros. in one sitting with the classic NES controller but fumbled a bit with an Xbox controller. I also love the feeling of a SNES controller playing SF II.

ugly95 I’d just use Retroarch on my desktop

I think it’s one part nostalgia, another part feeling. I’ve dabbled with software emulation but playing the game on original hardware has a different feeling to it, for better or for worse. You’re used to the enemies flickering in games like Rygar or Mega Man at certain points which doesn’t often happen on software emulation. The MiSTer project is great though, it’s hardware emulation that simulates the original hardware with all its defects.

ugly95

urbanriot 100% agree with this. I can crush Super Mario Bros. in one sitting with the classic NES controller but fumbled a bit with an Xbox controller. I also love the feeling of a SNES controller playing SF II.

I bought one of those 8-bitDo SNES-style controllers (the SN30 Pro). It’s got the similar shape and button layout, but also adds a couple more shoulder buttons as well as dual-analog sticks.

I found I don’t really use it. I think I had some issue with the Bluetooth connection (Linux hell). But I actually did find the controller uncomfortable to use. I guess one thing that nostalgia cannot fix is the fact that I grew up to have giant hands.

I find the XBox One controller to have a really nice feel. At least they have a better D-Pad now.

The big annoyance is how many emulators map the movemenet to the analog sticks.

urbanriot I think it’s one part nostalgia, another part feeling. I’ve dabbled with software emulation but playing the game on original hardware has a different feeling to it, for better or for worse. You’re used to the enemies flickering in games like Rygar or Mega Man at certain points which doesn’t often happen on software emulation. The MiSTer project is great though, it’s hardware emulation that simulates the original hardware with all its defects.

I was more in agreement on that at first. But I find I usually prefer it when they add the quality of life improvements. The flicker and slowdowns were really more of a source of frustration. I actually just bought the TMNT Cowabunga bundle of the PC and it has the first NES version of the TMNT game (you know, the one with the dam - which I was still able to beat on the first try). There is an option to turn off the flickering and slowdown. I left it off because I wanted to play it like I remembered. But next time I play it I think I’m going to turn it on.

And I do find some of the graphical filters to be a nice addition. As long as you don’t overdo the interpolation, it can be a decent tradeoff between the original look and a graphical upgrade.

And then there are the save states. As long as you avoid the temptation to outright cheat using them to play the perfect game, it’s nice to be able to just jump into the game real quick and not need to dedicate a couple hours to beat it all in one sitting.

But, I do agree that the hardware emulation might be the best option going forward as the original hardware continues to age, and replacement chips will become rarer.

There’s also options like the decompilation projects (they have one for Ocarina of Time) that has allowed people to release a PC version of the N64 game. It is interesting to go back to something like that and play it widescreen at 1440p and 144Hz.

urbanriot

ugly95 I find the XBox One controller to have a really nice feel. At least they have a better D-Pad now.

This is my favorite controller and I love that they have it for USB.

ugly95

urbanriot This is my favorite controller and I love that they have it for USB.

I can’t say I’ve played around with too many different controllers, but I’d have to agree.

I had a PS3 controller for PC, and I never liked their D-pad. Didn’t love the feel of the controller in general.

The XBox 360 controller had that god-awful D-Pad. I haven’t bothered to try with the Elite one.

The XBox One controller just feels great, and I can’t say I feel like I’m missing anything on it (maybe more buttons, but how often do you need that?). And most games seemed to be designed with that controller in mind, as if it’s the default controller.

I had issues with the Bluetooth connection (again, probably a Linux issue, I’ve had lots of issues with Bluetooth). But the USB works great. And, as chonky as it is, I find the Microsoft Dongle works quite well for wireless.

codezer0

Ladies and gentlemen? We got em.

codezer0

Kind of unrelated, but kind of related.

In short, it had come to light that the SNES that I used for the YPbPr mod, was using the shell borrowed from my wife’s childhood SNES. Part of the reason I didn’t do the mod on hers, is because it’s a 1chip model, and thus lacks the encoder chip compatible with such efforts.

And well, if I wanted to keep trying to pimp out our collection of systems, I felt obliged to “make right” her system.

(Picture related) I think I did it justice. Also gave me a chance to see if the 1chip indeed could output an RGB signal for the Retrotink, since I knew the SNES Jr model could not.

Zer0Cool

snes jr doesnt have rgb without modding it(which is easy to be fair). my modded one puts out rgb for the retrotink fwiw

codezer0

For future reference, a text version.

For SNES consoles with the S-ENC chip chip, or the renamed version; either way, before the 1chip revision is the important bit..

Tap R & L audio from pins 12 and 11 under the multi-av out respectively. Green (Y) can be tapped from Pin 7. The underside of the SNES motherboard has these numbered. Neither of these (should) need anything but a straight tap to the respective RCA jacks.

For the Blue and Red (PbPr), you can tap directly to the legs on the S-ENC chip, or on the vias (through holes) along the way.

Pin 24 -> (+) 220uF 35V capacitor (-) -> Blue (Pb) jack
Pin 1 -> (+) 220uF 35V cap (-) -> 75 Ohm resistor -> Red (Pr) jack

In my case I could only get 150 Ohm resistor; linking two in parallel divided to the appropriate amount of resistance.