Driving Lights

Avernar

px_eliezer_ Unfortunately it’s for vehicles sold after September 2021 so there’s still plenty of older vehicles running around with no lights in the dark (with the dashboard lit right up).

Thane_Bitter

Avernar Blame Toyota and Honda for this, they put in light up dash boards but provided no indicator for headlights (only running/parking lamps and of course high beams) and also skipped out on installing automatic headlights which would have at least bypassed the inattentiveness of the driver and turned on the lights on their own.

Avernar

px_eliezer_ The basic Daytime running lights for Canada (the front lights) were required since around 1990 (cars sold after December 1, 1989 to be technical).

Those are useless at night. Most car’s DRLs can barely be seen and GMs are half bright high beams which still end up blinding you. Plus it’s only the fronts.

Anything before September 2021 will be hard to see at night if the idiot didn’t turn their full lights on.

px_eliezer_

Avernar

Good to know.

Might still be better than what we have here in the USA where some folks have no lights on at all, even in full night.

And since the pandemic there just seem to be fewer cops around to catch them, at least here in NJ.

Splitpair

Avernar Those are useless at night. Most car’s DRLs can barely be seen and GMs are half bright high beams which still end up blinding you. Plus it’s only the fronts.

They are also not a focused light it is intended as a warning, not for roadway illumination.

px_eliezer_

Avernar px_eliezer_ (We don’t have mandatory running lights down here).

Down where? Now that’s ironic. 😀

Mmmph, good point! 😃

We don’t have mandatory running lights in the USA, unlike Canada.

telcodad

From: https://www.verizonconnect.com/resources/article/daytime-running-lights-drl-benefits-fleet-safety

In most of Europe and Canada, DRLs are mandatory, but in the United States, they are considered optional. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration allows DRLs on passenger cars, trucks and buses, but they are “permitted but not required.”

Additionally, no U.S. states currently mandate the use of DLRs, however, several states have specific rules about standard headlight usage during the day, especially in conditions that impact visibility.

State laws generally require drivers to turn on their headlights in certain weather conditions, such as heavy rain, fog or snow or when visibility is below a certain threshold, such as 500 feet. Some states keep it simple and require that drivers turn on their headlights whenever they turn on their windshield wipers. Some states also require drivers to use their headlights in construction zones, on narrow mountain passes or on winding roads.

Avernar

telcodad DRLs are useless. They do little for visibility in the daytime. Tail lights and marker lights are way more visible especially in fog. Fortunately the newer Canadian law requires tail lights to come on with the DRLs. Marker lights are mandated only when it gets dark but since they’re on the same circuit as tail lights 99.9999% of the time they’re effectively on with the DRLs.

In my old vehicle I switched the DRLs from headlights to marker lights. When I replaced the headlights with LED versions I just ran with full lighting always.

Sparkchaser

telcodad State laws generally require drivers to turn on their headlights in certain weather conditions,

Ours say if wipers are on turn on the lights.

Slightly OT, we just got a “You can’t hold a phone while driving.”
Not talking on it, just holding it.

telcodad

Sparkchaser Ours say if wipers are on turn on the lights.

Yes, same here in NJ.

telcodad Some states also require drivers to use their headlights in construction zones

I see that’s the case when I’m in PA.

Sparkchaser Slightly OT, we just got a “You can’t hold a phone while driving.”
Not talking on it, just holding it.

Yeah, I saw:

Shapiro Administration Reminds Drivers ‘Paul Miller’s Law’ Effective June 5
Signed by Governor Shapiro last year, the new hands-free law bans hand-held cell phone use while driving and increases transparency and accountability at traffic stops.
PA.gov - May 27, 2025
https://www.pa.gov/agencies/penndot/news-and-media/newsroom/statewide/2025/-paul-miller-s-law--effective-june-5.html

Somewhat-Reticent

Many vintage vehicles’ light switches have an intermediate position between Off and On-With-Headlights that powers running lights and interior “dash” panel(s), in which many drivers thereof have little interior indication that headlights are off (and thus easily forgotten).
Add driving habit formation when law required headlights an hour after sunset,
and then add legislation that updates the deadline to an hour before sunset.

Avernar

Somewhat-Reticent The Transport Canada says this about the newest law here

“a dashboard that stays dark to alert the driver to turn on the lights”

But it’s not specific to which lights (headlights or just tail/marker lights). I’ll have to try to find the wording of the actual law.

Splitpair

Somewhat-Reticent Add driving habit formation when law required headlights an hour after sunset,
and then add legislation that updates the deadline to an hour before sunset

Florida is in the center, headlights must be on at legal sunset and can be turned off after legal sunrise.

Many vehicles like my wife’s truck turn the headlights on and off automatically based on what is detected by a top of dashboard sensor.

Since neither of our trucks nor our car have DRL’s to increase visibility I installed the Philips DRL BC aftermarket DRL kit, it is simple to install and works by turning on the low beams at 50% once the vehicle is started.

Now that stated all of our vehicles had incandecent headlights I am not sure if that kit will work with factory installed LED headlights.

telcodad

Avernar DRLs are useless. They do little for visibility in the daytime.

To me it depends on the car model. Some DRLs are a string of LED lights around the headlight, while others are a lower-power headlight, or a separate lamp inside the headlight assembly.

Many times here in the U.S when driving on a highway at night I would see a car, in front of me or in an adjacent lane, with no taillights on, but some light on in front of it, realizing that they’re just driving with the DRLs on. 🙁

Avernar

telcodad o me it depends on the car model. Some DRLs are a string of LED lights around the headlight, while others are a lower-power headlight, or a separate lamp inside the headlight assembly.

The string of LEDs are for when the main headlight can’t be dimmed (at all or wear and tear issues). I’ve never noticed the separate lamp/bulb version. GM unfortunately runs their high beams half bright (in series) on models that use bulbs.

Regardless, in bright daylight all of them do nothing for visibility. In cases where it’s not as bright, the marker lights do a much better job.

Somewhat-Reticent

Avernar in bright daylight all of them do nothing for visibility

Au contraire, though they don’t blind others; also, bright day has shadows.

santy

Thane_Bitter My 2012 Honda Civic has an indicator on the dash that shows when the headlights are on. I also have auto headlights that turn on when it gets dark enough. ( Late afternoon driving in the shadows of trees and especially underpasses and tunnels they turn on when it’s still light out). Yes they use the high beams at half power as the DRL

Avernar

Sparkchaser Slightly OT, we just got a “You can’t hold a phone while driving.”
Not talking on it, just holding it.

We’ve had a distracted driving law that’s not specific to just phones for a while now here in Ontario. And they can nail you for it even on a technicality. Here’s what happened to me:

Pulled over and parked on a street to quickly use a phone. It was at night and a no parking zone. I didn’t see the sign but wasn’t parking for more that a few seconds to check my phone so was leaving shortly anyways. There literally was not a single car or person around. Until the cop pulls up. He says he can give me a ticket for distracted driving because I was using my phone while not legally parked. 😯 Fortunately I just got a warning for that one.

Avernar

Somewhat-Reticent Au contraire, though they don’t blind others; also, bright day has shadows.

And I can still see a car in those shadows. Guess how many times I’ve driven into a shadowy area and a car was heading towards me in my lane? Four letter word. Starts with Z.

Front facing white DRLs are useless. Marker lights and tail lights are much better for visibility. The creators of the new Canadian law realized this and now require the tail lights to be active as well. A side effect of this is that in most vehicles this will also turn on the marker lights.

When it’s foggy, having the tail lights on is way more important.

px_eliezer_

Avernar

I don’t know if that charge would have stuck, cop sounds like a jerk.

After all you had done the SAFE thing by pulling over to make the call.

Somewhat-Reticent

Avernar Legally or not, you were parked - not driving.
( That said, it’s wise to be nice to an officer. )

Avernar

px_eliezer_ I don’t know if that charge would have stuck, cop sounds like a jerk.

After all you had done the SAFE thing by pulling over to make the call.

Judge probably would have tossed it based on my intent which is why I suspect he didn’t actually give me a ticket.

Somewhat-Reticent Legally or not, you were parked - not driving.
( That said, it’s wise to be nice to an officer. )

No. Unfortunately how a normal person interprets things is not how lawyers and the judicial system interpret things. Laws have specific definitions of English words and if the law defines parked as “having the vehicle in park in a legal parking area” then legally the distracted “driving” charge would legally still be valid.

I’ve fought and won against tickets where I found the loophole in the wording as it applied to my situation. Even though interpreting it as a normal English speaker would meant that I would have lost.

So even though it’s called Distracted Driving it all depends on what the law defines as “driving”. Actually, they usually phrase it as “operating a motor vehicle” which is defined in some subsection or other.