787 Crashes in India

Sparkchaser · 2025-06-12T13:07:40+00:00

787 crashes in India, All 242 on board Ahmedabad-London flight are dead, confirms police https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/ahmedabad-air-india-plane-crash-live-updates-london-bound-flight-death-toll-injured/3877181/

MacLeech

real_aurgathor Interesting that Cpt. Steve heard what I had heard on the video. The sound of a single prop (he identified as the RAT), over the sound of dual jet engines that should’ve been at full thrust.

real_aurgathor

MacLeech

People familiar with certain sounds can hear them even if they are mostly masked by noise. I couldn’t hear it until he pointed it out, but then I could hear a subtle difference. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it before, at least not knowingly.

HooRU

I wonder… Could something unique to the 787 have failed that is the fault once again, of Boeing.

I’m also getting paranoid that some sort of spycraft from a bad player is going on with all these air disasters. It just boggles the mind that Boeing keeps having them. I may be crazy, but could spies be involved?

I watched a video that seems pretty clear that the RAT deployed and that is what the survivor heard and explains the lights flickering.

Even if this isn’t a Boeing failure, Boeing is in worse trouble now.

real_aurgathor

HooRU

As it was mentioned previously, this is the first hull loss for the 787, and aside from the aforementioned GCU bug (which could be easily dealt with), I haven’t heard anything that could possibly indicate any Boeing fault.

Statistically speaking, over half of the accidents are due to human error(s), or human error played *some* role in them. So until there is a better explanation, possibly backed by evidence or by authority, I’ll go with that.

Somewhat-Reticent

HooRU could spies be involved?

Why bother? Boeing’s doing plenty all by themselves. It’d be superfluous.

HooRU

Yeah.

telcodad

Black boxes will give investigators more certainty of what happened on Air India flight, experts say
https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/13/india/air-india-flight-investigation-black-box

The Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner’s cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, which were recovered from on top of the medical college hostel building where the plane crashed, could put to rest some of the speculation into the investigation that killed 241 people aboard the aircraft, according to aviation industry experts. The flight data recorder was recovered from the rear end of the plane.

The question will be whether the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators, India or another country will ingest the black boxes’ data, according to Peter Goelz, former managing director of the NTSB and a CNN aviation analyst.
:
The black box recovery is critical, many experts say, at this point, because the technology will point to what pilots were saying before they made the mayday call. “This will not be a mystery for more than another week or so if they got the data recorded, and the voice recorder will also explain what the pilots thought they were dealing with,” Goelz said.

HELLFIRE

Hopefully the CVR and FDR were fully functional…

Regards

real_aurgathor

The latest theories are fuel contamination or vapor lock – both are entirely possible and well within the realm of possibilities.

Given that it was 43°C at the tower, the tarmac was most likely a few degrees higher so a vapor lock can be a real possibility there. I’m not sure if there is anything that could detect that.

real_aurgathor

Here’s a Q&A session with with Steve. One interesting (and new to me) piece of information based on the videos is that the pilots probably *started* retracting the landing gear, but the plane lost power during the process. The RAT only supplies power to the crucial systems.

telcodad

Latest update on this:

Air India Crash Preliminary Report Next Week, Will Outline Possible Causes
Air India flight crash update: Sources said the report will include details about the aircraft, which was a Boeing Dreamliner 787-8, the crew, conditions at the Ahmedabad airport, and the weather on June 12, when Air India flight 171 crashed.
By Sesa Sen, NDTV - July 1, 2025
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-crash-probe-report-next-week-will-outline-damage-and-possible-causes-8807615

New Delhi: The preliminary probe report on the Air India crash, in which at least 270 people were killed - including 241 on board the flight - is expected to be released by July 11. The document, which is likely to be four to five pages long, will be crucial because it will provide initial insights into the crash, including the possible causes.

Sources said the report will include details about the aircraft, which was a Boeing Dreamliner 787-8, the crew, conditions at the Ahmedabad airport, and the weather on June 12, when Air India flight 171 crashed, roughly 30 seconds after taking off.

Details about the wreckage will also be part of the report, as will the name of the investigator in charge. The document will chart the progress of the probe, outline the next steps that need to be taken and highlight areas that need further investigation. As per International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) guidelines, India is required to file a preliminary report within 30 days of the crash. ….

telcodad

Latest update:

Air India Crash Probe Focusing On Movement Of Engine Fuel Control Switches: Report
At the time of publication of this report, neither the AAIB nor the Civil Aviation Ministry have announced the precise date on which the preliminary report will be published.
Reported by Vishnu Som, NDTV - July 9, 2025
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/air-india-crash-probe-focusing-on-movement-of-engine-fuel-control-switches-8847520

A report in the well-regarded aviation journal, The Air Current, says “the ongoing investigation into the cause of the June 12 crash of Air India flight 171 has narrowed its focus to the movement of the engine fuel control switches.”

The article, which attributes its information to “multiple people with knowledge of the investigation,” comes in a week when India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Board (AAIB) is expected to make public the preliminary report of its AI-171 investigation.
:
While the article in The Air Current doesn’t explicitly say as much, any focus on the fuel-control switches of the Boeing 787 points to the possibility of pilot error. … NDTV cannot independently verify the accuracy of the report in The Air Current nor confirm that pilot error was, in any way, a primary cause for the crash of AI-171. ….

real_aurgathor

telcodad Air India Crash Probe Focusing On Movement Of Engine Fuel Control Switches:

On the surface, that sure looks like a major pilot error, so I wonder if there was a reason to do something with them in a first place.

telcodad

real_aurgathor I wonder if there was a reason to do something with them in a first place.

Well, hopefully the preliminary report will be published tomorrow.

Astyanax

telcodad Well, hopefully the preliminary report will be published tomorrow.

…and Air Disasters can start production of the corresponding new episode. 😉

telcodad

Astyanax telcodad Well, hopefully the preliminary report will be published tomorrow.

…and Air Disasters can start production of the corresponding new episode. 😉

Well, I suppose they could start, but they would probably need to have the final report to complete the episode.

Somewhat-Reticent

real_aurgathor Reboot? 🙄

real_aurgathor

Somewhat-Reticent Reboot?

You not supposed to reboot an airplane that’s just took off and barely above land.

In any case, according to some description I read, those switches are designed in a way that they cannot be turned off accidentally.

telcodad

The preliminary report has now been released:

Both Engines Shut Down Within Seconds Of Take-Off: Air India Crash Probe Report
The plane was in the air for only 32 seconds before it crashed
By Rohit Paul, NDTV - July 12, 2025
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/both-engines-shut-down-mid-air-within-seconds-of-take-off-says-probe-report-on-air-india-ahmedabad-plane-crash-8863052

The preliminary report of the investigation into the Air India Dreamliner crash in Ahmedabad on June 12 has been released and one of the key findings confirms what had been suspected - both engines of the plane had shut down mid-air within seconds of take-off.

The report by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau into the crash of the Boeing Dreamliner 787-8 - in which at least 270 people were killed, including 241 of the 242 on board - said the fuel cutoff switches, which control the flow of fuel to the engines, transitioned from ‘RUN’ to ‘CUTOFF’ position one after another, within a second of each other.

Crucially, in the cockpit voice recording, one pilot can be heard asking, “Why did you cut off?” and the other pilot replies, “I didn’t”.

The fact that the switches transitioned to ‘CUTOFF’, starving the engines of fuel, is expected to be the key focus area of the investigation going forward. …..

Key Takeaways From Air India Probe Report On Ahmedabad Plane Crash
On June 12, AI171 flight took off from Ahmedabad airport for London’s Gatwick, but the aircraft - Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner - crashed a few seconds after taking off, killing all but one passenger.
By Divyam Sharma, NDTV - July 12, 2025
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/key-takeaways-from-air-india-probe-report-on-ahmedabad-plane-crash-8863105

On June 12, AI171 flight took off from Ahmedabad airport for London’s Gatwick, but the aircraft - Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner - crashed a few seconds after taking off, killing all but one passenger. The plane crashed into a building close to the airport, and a total of 260 people died in the incident, marking one of India’s deadliest aircraft accidents in recent history.

Here are the key takeaways from the 15-page report:

Both engines shut down mid-air within seconds after takeoff - fuel cutoff switches moved from RUN to CUTOFF one after another in just one second. The report revealed that the fuel supply to the engines was cut off.
Cockpit audio confirms one pilot asked, “Why did you cut off?” The other replied, “I didn’t”.
When the engines lost power, the Ram Air Turbine - a small propeller-like device - was deployed automatically to provide emergency hydraulic power. The CCTV footage obtained by AAIB showed RAT being deployed.
The pilots tried to restart the engine. N1 or engine 1 was partially recovered, but engine 2 failed to recover before impact. The aircraft was airborne for only 32 seconds - crashed 0.9 NM from the runway into a hostel.
Thrust levers found at idle, but the black box shows takeoff thrust was still engaged, suggesting a disconnect/failure.
Fuel tested clean, and there was no contamination from refuelling sources.
Flap setting (5 degrees) and gear (DOWN) were normal for takeoff. No bird activity or weather issues - clear skies, good visibility, light winds.
The AAIB report said the credentials of the pilots were clear and both were medically fit and rested, with adequate experience on the type.
No immediate sabotage evidence, but a known FAA advisory on a possible fuel switch flaw existed - inspections were not done by Air India. The aircraft was within weight and balance limits - no dangerous goods onboard.

telcodad

From:
Fuel switches cut off before Air India crash that killed 260, preliminary report says
BBC - July 11, 2025
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cx20p2x9093t

Report does not draw conclusions - but details provided on pilots’ actions

The preliminary report from India’s Air Accident Investigation Bureau into the loss of Air India flight 171, which killed 260 people, has cast attention firmly on the actions of the pilots.

As we just reported, the report says that according to data from the flight recorder both the fuel control switches, which are normally used to switch the engines on or off when on the ground, were moved from the run to the cutoff position shortly after takeoff. This caused both engines to lose thrust.

It says that in the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he “did the cutoff”. The other pilot, it says, responded that he did not do so. It is not specified which voice is which. At the time the aircraft took off, the co-pilot was flying the plane, while the captain was monitoring.

The switches were then moved back into their normal inflight position, something which would automatically start the process of relighting the engines. One engine, according to the report, was in the process of regaining thrust at the time the aircraft crashed. The other was relit but was not yet regaining thrust.

The report says: “At this stage of investigation, there are no recommended actions to B787-8 and/or GE GEnx-1B engine operators and manufacturers, suggesting that no significant fault has been found with the plane or its engines.”

The report does not draw any conclusions, and points out that the investigation is continuing, but it is clear attention is now being focused on the actions of the pilots.

« Previous Page Next Page »