Jeju Air Crash

broknsymetry · 2025-01-27T05:48:58+00:00

I thought we had a News Tag but I guess not so I'll drop this here. We had quite a discussion going at DSLR about the plane crash. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-reports-initial-findings-jeju-air-crash-icao-us-thailand-2025-01-26/ SEOUL, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Both engines of the Jeju Air (089590.KS) plane that crashed last month contained duck remains, according to a preliminary report on Monday, with authorities still trying to determine what caused the deadliest air disaster on South Korean soil. The six-page report released by South Korean authorities a month after the crash said both engines of the Boeing 737-800 jet contained DNA from Baikal Teals, a type of migratory duck that flies to South Korea for winter in huge flocks . But the report provided no initial conclusions about what may have caused the plane to land without its landing gear deployed, and why flight data recorders stopped recording in the final four minutes of the flight. So ducks, eh?

Somewhat-Reticent

HELLFIRE claim the records were doctored

And we know that’s quite doable these days.

HELLFIRE

Somewhat-Reticent And we know that’s quite doable these days.

Got any information, etc. confirming that?

FWIW, this is what my google-fu got for “how hard is it to fake a flight data recorder.” Standard NaCl caution applies so take it for what it is worth :

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7827/constructing-flight-recorder-data

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7794/can-flight-data-recorders-be-hacked

There’s also the old saying “The likelihood of a secret’s being blown is proportional to the square of the number of people who’re in on it.”

My Contrarian 00000010bits

Regards

HELLFIRE

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/jeju-air-jet-still-had-working-engine-when-it-crashed-investigation-update-says-2025-07-27/ – Jeju Air jet still had a working engine when it crashed, investigation update says

… According to a July 19 update prepared by investigators and seen by Reuters but not publicly released following complaints from victims’ family members, the left engine sustained less damage than the right following a bird strike, but the left engine was shut down 19 seconds after the bird strike. … No reason for the crew’s actions was given and the probe is expected to last months as investigators reconstruct the plane’s technical state and the picture understood by its pilots. …

Link includes an updated timeline with the engine shutdown noted, and notes some additional questions not answered still…

Regards

HELLFIRE

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2025-08-20/national/socialAffairs/YouTubers-who-claimed-Jeju-Air-crash-was-fake-sentenced-to-prison/2379985 – YouTubers who claimed Jeju Air crash was fake sentenced to prison

… From December 2024 to January 2025, the two defendants uploaded roughly 100 videos with titles like “Analysis of Muan Airport Aircraft Incident Footage” (translated) and said that the plane crash never happened and that the crash footage was “computer graphics.” … Prosecutors noted that under newly revised prosecutorial guidelines in effect since May, cyber defamation and online insult cases involving severe reputational damage or financial motives will face tougher penalties. …

FWIW…

Regards

real_aurgathor

HELLFIRE

Wow!! Not bad at all, and laws like this could be useful elsewhere – provided, of course, that objectivity can be applied objectively, which doesn’t appear to be the case in some developed countries…. 😧

Even more amazing is that one of them was a repeat offender!! 😲

The 60-year-old previously served 18 months in prison after the Supreme Court in 2018 found them guilty of defamation for spreading the false claim that the Sewol ferry disaster was a massacre orchestrated by the government and the Korea Coast Guard.

broknsymetry

Should we imprison people for saying the moon landing was fake or that the Earth is flat? I’m all for civil adjudication against defamation, but there is a fine line between defamation and free speech especially when it involves government agencies.

MacLeech

broknsymetry Should we imprison people for saying the moon landing was fake or that the Earth is flat?

Well maybe not imprison but attempts to impoverish….
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/14/us/infowars-sale-alex-jones-sandy-hook.html

Somewhat-Reticent

broknsymetry Free Speech includes assumption of liability.
Civil liability for damages from defamation, for example.
Criminal liability for fraud, harassment, and other crimes.
Keep it civil.

WalterDnes

broknsymetry Should we imprison people for saying the moon landing was fake or that the Earth is flat?

When Alex Jones claimed that the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre was a staged hoax https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/12/alex-jones-sandy-hook-shooting/

The families testified during the trial that the lies spread by Jones led to harassment and threats by conspiracy theorists who have accused them of faking their own children’s deaths. They described feeling unsafe in their own homes and hypervigilant in public. Some of the families moved away from Newtown.

I haven’t heard of flat-earthers or moon landing deniers harassing people who don’t believe them. Alex Jones’ conspiracy theories resulted in his rabid fans harassing and threatening innocent grieving parents,

real_aurgathor

There could be several different answrs to this, but I think it’s best to not answer it due to lack of “objectivity” in many issues, which I mentioned above for good reasons.

broknsymetry

WalterDnes Alex Jones’ conspiracy theories resulted in his rabid fans harassing and threatening innocent grieving parents,

And was rightly subject to civil penalties not criminal ones.

HELLFIRE

I get some time, I’ll have to look into the law South Korea used on these guys. I’m fairly familiar with “Actual Malice” in US law – https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/new_york_times_v_sullivan_(1964)

… established that statements under such circumstances involving a public official plaintiff must be false and made with “actual malice,” that is, “with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not.” …

WalterDnes I haven’t heard of flat-earthers or moon landing deniers harassing people who don’t believe them.

May want to look into Patricia Steere’s story, it’s less about flat earth and more about the darkest of dark corners the human brain and heart can and will go to.

…in any case, back to topic…

Regards

Somewhat-Reticent

broknsymetry not criminal

Reserved for followers …

HELLFIRE

This popped up. I don’t know the quality of the source or the reporting, so standard NaCl caution applies : https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/08/27/WAVP65B4BVH4PKEELE4FQXT3GQ/ – Exclusive: Concrete mound at Muan Airport ignored despite repeated warnings

South Korea’s transport ministry missed at least three chances to remove a concrete mound near Muan Airport’s runway before last December’s Jeju Air crash killed 179 people, records show. … Yet for 18 years after Muan Airport opened in 2007, the mound consistently received a “satisfactory” rating. …

Regards

real_aurgathor

HELLFIRE

It wasn’t an issue for many years….

Alas, I find it very believable – changes are often made after something bad happens.

Heat84

real_aurgathor …changes are often made after something bad happens.

You mean often made only after something bad happens.

HELLFIRE

This just hit my radar, pardon the pun… : https://www.chosun.com/english/national-en/2025/10/13/5U3Z5FMCFFAIBNQGNRJTH5PCZU/ – Exclusive: Muan Accident Aircraft Had Eight Engine Replacements in 2024

… the aircraft experienced 10 instances of malfunctions, damage, or abnormal messages from 2023 to 2024, leading to 10 part replacements. The malfunctions included critical components such as the Electronic Engine Control (EEC) device, which controls thrust during landing. … the issue lies in the fact that not only did eight malfunctions occur last year alone, but all of them were in the right engine. …

Regards

real_aurgathor

HELLFIRE the issue lies in the fact that not only did eight malfunctions occur last year alone, but all of them were in the right engine. …

That is *really* strange and statistically unlikely (0.4% chance) and may be indicative of something else being defective that wasn’t replaced.

Somewhat-Reticent

Was there a wrong engine?

HELLFIRE

From Jeju’s POV, I can see “we followed Step X in the troubleshooting manual, it held up for Y timeframe, then something ELSE broke…” You could try swapping out the whole engine, but a. that takes quite a few manhours, and b. takes a money-making plane out of rotation for awhile…

Either way, will keep my ear to the ground, cuz it definitely hasn’t gotten to the end of the rabbithole yet…

Regards

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