Are Solar Panels Systems Worth It?

telcodad · 2025-05-14T13:52:56+00:00

Every now and then, I get to thinking about having a solar panel system installed on my home. But then, I see/read about horror stories like below, and it changes my mind. Also, would it be better to purchase or lease a solar panel system? Thousands struggling to get solar panels fixed after company’s bankruptcy. How the new CEO is trying to help By Mahsa Saeidi & Walter Smith Randolph, CBS New York - May 13, 2025 https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/sunpower-bankruptcy-solar-panel-broken/ Maria and Louis Pinneri’s golden years have been shaded by a broken solar panel system. In 2011, the Staten Island couple leased it through SunPower, a giant in the industry. In March 2023, they say it broke – specifically, the inverter, which converts electricity generated by the sun into electricity appropriate for the grid. “And they told us as soon as we get the new meter, we’re going to replace it,” Louis Pinneri said. “And I never heard it from them again.” …. : Rodgers says in recent months, dozens of small to mid-size solar installers, contractors and companies have failed. “It is an industry that has pretty much collapsed,” he said. “And the other problem, I’ll just tell you, is the government … ’Oh, we can’t do it because we can’t get this vote through. Oh, we’re going to pay for a part of your system, we’re not going to pay for part of your system.' And those jerk-arounds take a toll.”

Somewhat-Reticent

Splitpair reduces the amount of taxes collected based on a critical industries needs

And they’re all critical, and they all “need” - just ask ’em.

real_aurgathor

Splitpair

1) “Tax break” is an *indirect* subsidy
2) Even without subsidies, wind and solar are now cheaper than electricity from most other sources for new plants.

As of 2024 and 2025, the cheapest sources of new, unsubsidized electricity are onshore wind and utility-scale solar. However, their costs have recently increased due to inflation and higher interest rates. Other generation methods vary significantly in price, with natural gas, coal, and nuclear energy generally costing more than wind and solar.

The cost of electricity is measured using the Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE), which factors in the total costs of building and operating a power plant over its entire lifespan. The figures below are based on analyses by the investment bank Lazard in 2024 and 2025 and are expressed in U.S. dollars per megawatt-hour ($/MWh.

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

Splitpair

real_aurgathor 2) Even without subsidies, wind and solar are now cheaper than electricity from most other sources for new plants

Not true, once the cost of storage and the additional PV output required to charge the storage enough carry the farms output over a few days of no usable sun is added in, the costs of PV generation is much higher the conventional generation.

Somewhat-Reticent

Hydro factors also include water-management costs & benefits, affecting fish & farm food_sources, transportation, & flooding.
Nuclear, hydro & geothermal risks also include tremors.

real_aurgathor

Splitpair

Goal post moving much by trying to argue on some hypothetical, worst case scenarios? 😉

In any case, here is the expected mix of for the utility scale capacity additions in 2025:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586

Looks like the execs didn’t listen to your opinion since 51.7 % is PV and 29% is battery storage vs. a mere 7% of natural gas.

Splitpair

real_aurgathor In any case, here is the expected mix of for the utility scale capacity additions in 2025:

That’s capacity, it does not make any claims about 24/7 availability, as such it is not included into total grid generation.

Your comparing apples to rocks.

Somewhat-Reticent

Splitpair it is not directly included

. ( Inclusion should cover storage_buffering & grid_interface factors. )
See also: ( Plans )

Splitpair

Somewhat-Reticent . ( Inclusion should cover storage_buffering & grid_interface factors. )
See also: ( Plans )

Correct.

Also the information posted is off topic as it has nothing to do with the installation and maintenance of residential solar and this is after all the homeowners forum, not the alternative energy or utility owners forum.

pandaman1784

Splitpair Also the information posted is off topic as it has nothing to do with the installation and maintenance of residential solar

generally speaking, if you have really high electricity rates like in Cali and NYC, solar is a no brainer. are government tax rebates helpful in adoption? certainly. but that’s true for most efficiency upgrades. replace your 80% furnace with a high efficiency one? tax rebate. replace your draft windows and doors? tax rebate. improve the insulation of your home? tax rebate.

like most things with home ownership, the lower cost factor is a major decision driver. if left to their own, homeowners most likely won’t pick the more expensive option. so it’s left on the government to offer a carrot.

Splitpair

pandaman1784 so it’s left on the government to offer a carrot.

In my opinion that is not a good use of US tax payers money, if rates are so high let the homeowners pay to lower their bill but don’t charge his neighbors to help lower his bill.

It makes no sense to tax everyone to benefit a few for something they can live without.

Splitpair

real_aurgathor Looks like the execs didn’t listen to your opinion since 51.7 % is PV and 29% is battery storage vs. a mere 7% of natural gas.

However taken in context solar is only 11%.

Per FERC Gas still constitutes 43% of the country’s total generating capacity, according to the report. Coal is just shy of 15%; solar is a little over 11%; wind is 11.8%; and nuclear is 7.7%.

https://www.ferc.gov/opp/energy-infrastructure

real_aurgathor

Splitpair Per FERC Gas still constitutes 43% of the country’s total generating capacity, according to the report. Coal is just shy of 15%; solar is a little over 11%; wind is 11.8%; and nuclear is 7.7%

My post was about new construction, and not about the current mix. Operating preexisting plants is usually cheaper than building new power plants, but when it comes to expansion, constructions costs are a very important factor.

pandaman1784

Splitpair I cannot speak for anything other than electric utilities who are making it a lot tougher on data center developers regardless what the locals want for their pocket.

Electric utilities love selling power, but they are not too keen on spending millions on something that might fold up and turn the lights out leaving with having spent a lot of money and no longer a use for the grid upgrades they did.

i found the video i was talking about. here:

Splitpair

pandaman1784 i found the video i was talking about. here:

Some good info there, but also some false info there, interconnect agreements are form of CPNI meaning they cannot be shared without both sides permission and that is not a utility requirement that is a regulatory requirement, conversely utilities are not all that excited about powering data centers, they see it as a high risk they do not want to take on.

Last Wednesday I was on a conference call where a number of ideas where proffered and one that seemed to be universally accepted by the utility representatives on the call is to require data centers to purchase their own or buy into storage and renewable generation equal to their projected load demand.

In other words require them to generate their own power with a utility as a backup, so they always have power, but with a major cost of generation placed on them not the utilities, now that will probably have a adverse effect on projected profits but too effing bad, utilities do not want to hold the risk of their possible and quite likely failure.

Yea they the data center developers are going to push back but utilities are very well versed in dragging their feet when it comes to interconnects.

pandaman1784

Splitpair Yea they the data center developers are going to push back but utilities are very well versed in dragging their feet when it comes to interconnects.

i guess it really depends on the locale then. there are lots of places that aren’t your usual datacenter epicenters (like northern virgina or las vegas), and would love to get in on the datacenter boom (jobs, tax revenue, etc). local governments can exert pressure on the local utility. after all, the local utility is beholden to the local government.

MacLeech

Splitpair Last Wednesday I was on a conference call where a number of ideas where proffered and one that seemed to be universally accepted by the utility representatives on the call is to require data centers to purchase their own or buy into storage and renewable generation equal to their projected load demand.

In other words require them to generate their own power with a utility as a backup, so they always have power, but with a major cost of generation placed on them not the utilities, now that will probably have a adverse effect on projected profits but too effing bad, utilities do not want to hold the risk of their possible and quite likely failure.

Sounds like this:
https://www.solar.com/learn/apples-new-campus-country-largest-solar-commercial-project/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Flats_Solar_Project

real_aurgathor

telcodad

Solar panels save families an average of $2,000 a year, according to a new study

The new study examined roughly 500,000 U.S. households that adopted rooftop solar. It found that the median energy burden fell from 3.3 percent to 2.6 percent across adopters.

The authors put it plainly, “rooftop solar reduces energy burden across a majority of adopters during our study period from a median of 3.3% to 2.6%,” wrote Forrester. That is a national view, not a single city snapshot.

News: https://www.earth.com/news/solar-panels-save-families-an-average-of-nearly-2000-a-year-new-study/

Study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48967-x

Splitpair

real_aurgathor Solar panels save families an average of $2,000 a year, according to a new study

However what is not being addressed is how many homeowners have solar systems that are either under producing or are turned off.

The problems stem from two major factors PV connector failures, where it has been observed 83% of projects had at least a connector failure while 43% of systems have had major connector problems requiring urgent maintenance, in one case a overheated arcing connector started a roof fire.

Solar Builder Q3

Add to that in the past decade 70% of solar contractors have gone out of business stranding their customers without any maintenance or PV panel warranties.

SPW April 24

And to add to the problems Kiva PEVL and RETC have determined a problem with TOPcon and HJT module failures with modules spontaneously cracking not due to extreme weather but due to encapsulant failures.

Solar Builder Q4

2025 is not turning out to be a good year for the PV industry.

By the way those so called savings only apply to certain small regions of the US, in the rest of the US the savings are much smaller, if any at all.

As the ROI in many installations takes longer than the system will last.

pandaman1784

Splitpair the whole “solar lease” model has been a main driver of what you speak of. those of us who own their solar panel system, like myself, can have anyone service the equipment. like my control model died. i called my installer, they reached out to the manufacturer and a replacement part was shipped out for replacement. i technically didn’t have to use my installer. but since they warranty their work, the labor was free.

but with the lease model, the homeowner doesn’t own the equipment. so ostensibly, they can’t just find any company to work on the broken system. only the lease holder can initiate the repair. furthermore, a lot of the lease companies have proprietary equipment put in. so when they go out of business, it’s not an easy equipment swap to get the system working again.

furthermore, being that the incentives for solar installs will go away at the end of this year, many more companies will fail and exacerbate the issue.

Splitpair

pandaman1784 the whole “solar lease” model has been a main driver of what you speak of. those of us who own their solar panel system,

No the problem is mostly with owned systems that get abandoned by out of business installers leaving owners with no warranties to fall back on.

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