Annnoying things about cord-cutting.

lesmikesell

Does anyone have stories about the little problems that show up when replacing your cable TV service with a basketful of devices and apps - or how they solved them? I have a couple of unsolved issues: one is that I have an antenna for local channels but frequently get airplane interference on the TV and channel that I watch most. A newer TV in another room gets the ATSC 3.0 feed which is perfect, but I don't want to buy a new TV - or only watch in the other room. Maybe a zapperbox would work?? The other little thing is that that same (older) TV is connected by an optical cable to a receiver with surround sound and a couple of apps (specifically Peacock and YouTube) will not send Dolby Digital 5.1 even though I know the content has it on the other TV and all of the other apps I use send DD 5.1 fine. This is particularly annoying because the TV channel with OTA problems is NBC and I have Peacock Premium Plus which has the live NBC feed, so I have to choose between airplane glitches or not having surround sound. First world problems I guess, but still annoying.

Donut417

lesmikesell Sadly that just how OTA TV is. I mean lots can interfere. As far as ATSC 3.0 goes there are lots of improvements but also issues. LG for example got in trouble due to patents and has pretty much pulled out of the whole thing. You could probably find an external tuner box to use with that older TV. I would heavily suggest you check out the Antenna Man on Youtube. He a great resource for what's available and what products are worth it. I do recall him saying that OTA is not going to ever be 100%, there will always be some levels of glitchyness.

As far as the issues with sound with streaming apps. I mean it's a mixed bag. God help you if you want to do 4K and HDR on a PC because they make it near impossible to do. Its more of a take what you can get type of situation. Most of this is due to DRM and restrictions. Remember we are all criminals in the eyes of media companies, regardless if you have ever pirated content or not in your life.

Owlyn

After 30+ years with Comcast, the price broke the $300/month barrier, so after reflecting on what we actually watch, and considering that we can’t reliable get OTA in our location, I decided to make some changes. We do have Verizon FIOS available, but due to several reasons, I didn’t want to make that change. So, I decided to keep Comcast 1.2GB and landline. I then looked at the various channel streaming services and created a spreadsheet factoring in all costs and what was included, including the regular streaming services we wanted (Netflix, Max, etc.). and narrowed it down to YTTV and Hulu TV. I did the trial on YTTV and Hulu TV. I liked the interface on YTTV, and was not thrilled with the one on Hulu TV, but for the same price, I get Hulu streaming with Hulu TV. Bottom line is I have everything I had before (plus unlimited DVR) for $100/month less than with Comcast.

HooRU

Annoyance would be having to do extra clicks/scrolls to get where you want. But it's a tradeoff because using apps let's my choose what I want more than one blast cable service. I hated cable frankly.

What I do worry about is that there are so many services now that it's diluting the talent. More jobs, but less quality at times.

Owlyn

HooRU I liked the convenience, but not for the price. I’m used to the HULU TV interface, but that’s the nicest thing I can say about it. Once you’re in there, and have Live selected, and choose a show to watch, it’s 3 more clicks to watch the show.

FallenAnjel

How about switching the tvs and put the other tv in the main room you watch tv in?

lesmikesell

FallenAnjel How about switching the tvs and put the other tv in the main room you watch tv in?

There's not room for it. The new one is 75" in a larger basement room and the old one is 55" filling a corner in room on the main floor where we spend more time. For the moment I think I made a big improvement in the interference by moving the antenna a few inches up and aiming a few degrees differently. It is very inconvenient to access in a cramped attic that you reach through a hole in a closet ceiling so I had been putting off fiddling with it. When I first installed it, I didn't realize that the TV had a signal power meter to fine tune it - and didn't notice the interference right away because it only happens at random times. It has only been a couple of days so it may come back if flight patterns change but for now I'm surprised at the difference a tiny shift made without even moving the mounting bracket.

Splitpair

lesmikesell

When you say airplane interference are you referring to ghosting?
If so that is multipath and is commonly the result of not having the antenna pointed using a compass at the transmitter site, a signal strength meter can through you off course when aiming an antenna.

Splitpair

lesmikesell

Splitpair When you say airplane interference are you referring to ghosting?
If so that is multipath and is commonly the result of not having the antenna pointed using a compass at the transmitter site, a signal strength meter can through you off course when aiming an antenna.

It's digital, so it shows up more as stripes of the frame missing for a second or two and losing Dolby Digital from the audio. I live a bit north of Chicago O'hare and the towers are downtown (southeast) so odds are pretty good that there are always a dozen planes somewhere between us, but I only saw the interference intermittently and generally only on NBC. There's another smaller airport farther north and I think most of the time I'm in a buffer zone on the flight paths. But in any case the TV that receives ATSC 3.0 never showed any interference, and so far after my minor adjustment the ATSC 1.0 feed also seems clean. I originally used the antennaweb coordinates for the tower direction and the compass app on an iphone to aim, but must have been off slightly, maybe from working in an awkward cramped space. Using the TV's strength and SNR numbers seem to be better. But, a wind shift may change the flight patterns and cause trouble again. It hasn't been that long since I made the change.

Donut417

lesmikesell I recall the Antenna man on Youtube explained this. Pretty much OTA is never going to be 100% stable. But it can be to a good enough state. I live near Detroit Metro Airport and I can get mostly stable on many channels. All of my channels come from around the same area, Detroit or Southfield, North East of where I live. Im about 22 Miles out from the transmitters and there are obstructions in the way, trees and such. Im able to get pretty decent results with one of those cheap shit flat antennas. I do however find when there are lots of solar storms and such I do get issues. So a few times a year Fox wont come in for example. However I also sub to streaming so if push comes to shove I can find the content there. We mostly use OTA TV for Local News and I record NCIS off of CBS. Plus when we get close to our data cap we still have something we can watch. Because we do this thru Plex I also have ripped a few movies to the server as well.

Jbob

lesmikesell If your antenna is in the attic perhaps you need to consider moving it on the roof...if possible. I put my antenna at the highest part of my roof. From there I have direct line of sight to most of the transmitters which are only like 6 miles away. But I have a few other transmitters that are almost the complete opposite direction and much further away.
Also saying it's digital can be misleading. The signals being transmitted are RF energy.

Bink63

lesmikesell I live a bit north of Chicago O'hare and the towers are downtown (southeast) so odds are pretty good that there are always a dozen planes somewhere between us,

Well, unless you're in Blackhawk Estates on Touhy, aircraft inbound from the East to O'Hare are above Line of Sight interference for you.

Given the Broadcast Antenna heights on Sears and Big John and the glideslope altitudes into ORD, you need to re-evaluate your analysis of your reception issues.

lesmikesell

Jbob The point with 'digital' is that usually you either receive a more or less perfect signal or you don't. That is you don't get the snowy pictures fading in and out like the old analog transmission. But, the interference can be for fractions of a second so you get glitches out of part of a frame and lose the dolby digital audio momentarily, which is what I was sometimes seeing. However it seems to be fixed with a very small adjustment in aiming so it must be just enough more signal to stay locked on in spite of reflections. My antenna (a Clearstream 4V) is mostly directional with a screen blocking the back side and all of my transmitters are in the same direction. I'd probably buy an ATSC 3.0 tuner for my other TV before poking holes in my roof to mount the antenna outside if it came to that, since the TV that has ATSC 3.0 never shows interference. The thing that seemed odd to me is that the interference was mostly on NBC and I think Fox transmits from the same tower.

Donut417

lesmikesell Keep in mind that part of the OTA TV spectrum now belongs to the Cellular Spectrum. TV antennas will pick up those signals and it will cause interference. So if you have cell towers near, that also can cause you issues. Thats why they sell LTE/5G filters. So if you dont have one of those you may want to pick one up.

GeekGirl1

Trees did it for me. Water attenuates RF signals at the UHF and VHF broadcast frequencies. It's enough to create nasty multipath into my antenna. Windy days made things impossible to watch.

In the winter, evergreens are around me so I had no relief. There is no clear line-of-sight to the broadcast antennas.

lesmikesell

Donut417 I did get an LTE filter because I'm near a cell tower - but it didn't make any difference. I'm pretty sure the problem is from airplanes because I sometimes hear them as it happens. I'm hoping the small aiming change has fixed it permanently but you never know when they will change flight patterns.

lesmikesell

Bink63 Multipath interference happens when signals reflect off the plane and the reflection hits the receiving antenna with enough timing difference to confuse the tuner. So it could even be planes north of me reflecting back. Normally I don't get a lot of planes directly overhead because I'm also near Chicago Executive airport and in sort of a buffer zone but I think recently O'Hare is pushing their flight patterns north more often - at least I hear larger planes more often, maybe depending on the wind direction.

Bink63

lesmikesell Multipath interference happens when signals reflect off the plane and the reflection hits the receiving antenna with enough timing difference to confuse the tuner. So it could even be planes north of me reflecting back. Normally I don't get a lot of planes directly overhead because I'm also near Chicago Executive airport and in sort of a buffer zone but I think recently O'Hare is pushing their flight patterns north more often - at least I hear larger planes more often, maybe depending on the wind direction.

Sigh...

here's a few things...

I'm a pilot, I'm a retired comfinity Field Tech that WORKED your area, I'll also be an Amateur Radio licensee once some paperwork issues are resolved. I know how much multipath interference an aircraft aloft could potentially create.

I also know the runway layout of ORD and flight patterns there, NONE of which are NORTH of ORD.

HE Double Hockey Sticks, coming in to ORD last September, my seatmates were surprised by the guided tour I gave them coming in from the Southeast, over Elmhurst, out over Lake Michigan and turning to Final Approach North of IPR.

I'd post the video, but I don't put stuff like that out for everyone and bad actors to see...

We've had our run-ins in the past, at the other site and you can't seem to grasp that I do in fact, know your neighborhood, which is NORTHEAST of O'Hare (you mentioned you're quite near the Headend on Wolf Rd) in Mount P.

You could simply swap TV sets as was already suggested, recheck your interior cable runs and reaim/reposition your OTA Antenna.

Reality Check: you have stated that one TV has perfect reception, an older one doesn't.

That rules OUT "multipath Interference".

* * Personal attack statements removed by moderator * * *

lesmikesell

Bink63 First, I think the problem is solved with the slight shift in antenna position. Second, the difference between the TV with interference and the one that doesn't is that the newer one receives the new/different ATSC 3.0 transmission and part of the improvement in the new technology is specifically to combat multipath interference. So, rather than ruling out multipath as the problem it makes it the prime suspect.

As for flight patterns you are correct that 'most' goes far south, but I know what I see and hear, and there are planes nearby. Here is a site with a live view and as I'm posting I see 6 in the Arlington Heights - Wheeling area pretty close to me.
https://webtrak.emsbk.com/cda

They might be from Chicago Executive (used to be Palwaukee) though. But I think O'hare traffic is pushing north too. Sometimes I hear the rumbling sound of larger planes south of me, while the smaller executive jets screech to the north.
https://www.therecordnorthshore.org/2024/12/23/look-out-above-change-in-flight-patterns-has-planes-flying-over-wilmette-like-never-before/

Andyross

Another weird issue can be if a station isn't broadcasting the correct PSIP channel numbers. Here in Chicago, WLPD (30) and WWTO (35) both broadcast on RF32. But due to some PSIP issue, they are now mixed in with WFLD 32 (RF24). They were fine on my Samsung TV, until I happened to tune into them one day, and they jumped into the 32's, with the original 30/35 removed. I just tried a rescan today, and it's still mixed up. On an older Sony, it's also now mixed in, but the original 30/35 are still there, as it doesn't remove channels on it's own.

lesmikesell

Andyross Another weird issue can be if a station isn't broadcasting the correct PSIP channel numbers.

What I thought was strange was that it would go for three days or so at a time with perfect quality and then a couple with frequent glitches. But it has been several days with no problem now so I'm hoping it won't come back.

The really annoying thing is that I have an AirTV Anywhere OTA DVR that uses the Sling service/apps as a network player for TV's and other devices. If I could buy a similar device that received the ATSC 3.0 feeds I would, and then I'd get the improved quality everywhere and in recordings too. But because of the DRM, you can't do that. The zapperbox is the only thing that comes close and it only works with an HDMI-connected TV. They are working on network access but it requires a box for each TV instead of an app and doesn't work with DRM transmissions like we have here yet.