Madison Square Garden’s surveillance system banned fan over his T-shirt design

GrumpyCanadian

Astyanax How would you take it if one of your invited guests showed up at your party wearing t-shirts saying Ban (your name) on it after you did something they didn’t like?

That depends; did I sell them a ticket to the party at my home and make a profit? Were they warned ahead of time that they were not eligible to attend? Did I tell them when they tried to complete the transaction when buying said ticket?

On the other hand, even if a guest did show up wearing a shirt that said something like “<my name> is a bozo!” (since one cannot “ban” me from my home), I would like to think I would have the maturity to discuss the matter with them. I am in no way infallible, and I may well have done something that warrants being called a bozo, and that may be just what I needed to convince me to correct my behaviour in the future.

egeezer

GrumpyCanadian
Also, you should ask prospective guests “have you or done anything in the last thirty years or been in any business that might have made me butt hurt?”. 😃

dave

GrumpyCanadian

If it were my friend in the shirt, I’d just attribute it to a robust sense of humour.

Astyanax

px_eliezer_ Big difference between a “party” and a very, very public event (a concert in this case) at Radio City Music Hall.

BIG!

Change it from a party to your business. The difference your trying to make is irrelevant. Dolan owns or operates both venues and has the right to trespass anyone he wants.

px_eliezer_ As well, Radio City has received major tax breaks from various NY government entities, so they do have some public obligation (not to act like Nazis at any rate).

And, the MSG company has been granted several liquor licenses by the State of New York. Lawsuits against MSG have already been underway in regard to the concept of, if you’ve been granted a liquor license, you have to meet basic standards of public access.

How many more tens of thousands of the public does MSG have to allow into their venues meeting “basic standards of public access” before they can maybe trespass one bozo no matter the reason?

Astyanax

egeezer The situation in this topic was a person being trespassed because he had a business that made and sold T-shirts over twenty years ago that other people wore.

Since the guy didn’t and never had shown up at the venue wearing or displaying such apparel, your scenario is irrelevant to this topic.

Ok so the guy that made the shirts never shows up at my party but still he’d never be welcome at my house that’s for sure so I’d trespass him. Talk about moot points. 🙄

egeezer As mentioned previously, trespassing the guy on those pretenses is a snowflake move by butt hurt managers who just wanted to retaliate against him for allowing his business - over twenty years ago - to sell T-shirts with messages they disagreed with.

…and is there some “pettiness” standard that has to be met? Call it what you want. The owner didn’t like it and that’s that.

egeezer This is a different set of case facts from Pruneyard v. Robins, where the individuals had actually engaged in activities on the plaintiff’s property.

However, the Pruneyard v. Robins decision does indicate that the guy tresspassed from MSG could prevail in a lawsuit, since his alleged violation was one where he never engaged in activities on or near MSG’s premises at any time.

Fine. Let him pay some lawyer thousands of dollars so he can win and see his basketball game, concert, etc. Dolan will probably personally hand him a “golden” Willy Wonka-like ticket laughing his a** off at him while doing it: “Here kid! You definitely paid for this one! Bwahahaha!!!” Then it’s some seat facing a pole. LOL! 😄

Astyanax

GrumpyCanadian That depends; did I sell them a ticket to the party at my home and make a profit? Were they warned ahead of time that they were not eligible to attend? Did I tell them when they tried to complete the transaction when buying said ticket?

These are valid points. The guy should have been told he was banned and shouldn’t have been allowed to even purchase a ticket.

GrumpyCanadian On the other hand, even if a guest did show up wearing a shirt that said something like “<my name> is a bozo!” (since one cannot “ban” me from my home), I would like to think I would have the maturity to discuss the matter with them. I am in no way infallible, and I may well have done something that warrants being called a bozo, and that may be just what I needed to convince me to correct my behaviour in the future.

I don’t believe there’s a magnanimity standard you must meet or pettiness test of the offense before you’re allowed to file a trespass order against someone.

Somewhat-Reticent

Counter-spin referenced “threats against an MSG executive on social media”.
Anyone find ’em?

egeezer

Astyanax
Nothing changes the fact that the easily offended management went snowflake, and that city and state (if they wished to do so) have every right to cancel public support if it doesn’t like MSG’s practices or positions.

If they didn’t want the guy to attend, they should have notified him of the trespass since they had already identified him as the businessman who offended them by selling shirts with an offending viewpoint. They shouldn’t have sold him a ticket, or at least should refund his ticket price.

Dks01

broknsymetry if you avoid a venue or place where you are being photographed, you will live a very lonely, isolated life. Video recording in public spaces and private venues is universal now.

Dks01

If the venue is privately owned, the property owners or their lessees have the right to remove anyone for their own reasons and to prevent them from returning by trespassing them. NFL and MLB franchises do this all the time. In fact, if you purchase a ticket and enter the stadium, you voluntarily surrender many of your rights. Here is what you surrender when you buy a Cleveland Browns ticket. https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/terms

That includes your First Amendment rights.

Their code of conduct is summarized here. Other venues and teams may have different codes.

broknsymetry

Dks01 broknsymetry if you avoid a venue or place where you are being photographed, you will live a very lonely, isolated life. Video recording in public spaces and private venues is universal now.

I actually prefer the isolation. Yes, video recording/surveillance is everywhere; though I dislike it, I accept it. What I do not accept is “Facial Recognition” - I see that as an invasion of my privacy, especially by commercial entities.

InternetJeff

I remember the good ole days on DSLR where if you complained about a business or social media platform, the phrase “It’s a private business” was eagerly commandeered. Of course the concept is indeed true, but selectively cited.

Astyanax

egeezer Nothing changes the fact that the easily offended management went snowflake, and that city and state (if they wished to do so) have every right to cancel public support if it doesn’t like MSG’s practices or positions.

I’m trying to understand these multiple attempts at connecting the “city and state” with this dispute and what they have to do with it. MSG isn’t exactly banning hundreds or thousands of taxpaying attendees from their venues here. You all honestly believe the city and state are going to threaten MSG’s tax breaks over this one jerk? LOL!

Astyanax

broknsymetry What I do not accept is “Facial Recognition” - I see that as an invasion of my privacy, especially by commercial entities.

“They” already know everything about you and what you look like while doing it anyway. 😜

broknsymetry

Astyanax Therein lies the problem.

Astyanax

broknsymetry Therein lies the problem.

You might want to shy away from airports too.

https://www.biometricupdate.com/202409/airport-biometrics-one-thing-most-americans-agree-on

broknsymetry

Astyanax You might want to shy away from airports too.

I don’t travel.

Dks01

broknsymetry Facial recognition has been pulled from this country after Privacy Commissioner question. https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/surveillance/police-and-public-safety/gd_fr_202205/

dave

InternetJeff

Sure, business owners have that right in law. But that doesn’t stop others from pointing out the pettiness of the thin-skinned focused on getting ‘revenge’ against someone perceived to have insulted them.

InternetJeff

dave that doesn’t stop others from pointing out

Selectively, as I pointed out.

Unfortunately we are no longer able to cite posts on the old site.

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